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bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 6:54 p.m.
Toyman01 wrote: Does that mean the Jag Duratec is different from the Ford Duratec or did they just use a generic picture?

The Jag motor uses different heads, it has bucket cam followers.

The Ford motor uses roller rockers

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
10/16/13 7:56 p.m.

The Jag head uses the same diameter buckets as VW 2-valve engines but they are significantly lighter. They're shim-over mechanical, not hydraulic.

We recently scrapped a Jag 3.0. I saved all 24 buckets as well as the injectors, the sensors, the 36-1 wheel behind the timing cover... I was hoping that they'd be 35mm buckets but they're not. Oh well, they're still rather light at least.

I would have kept the whole engine and fixed it but for the fact that the water pump would want to coexist with the accelerator pedal in the chassis I'd want to stuff it into.

Oh and I saved the cam chain tensioners. They look like the same ones as 4-cylinder Duratec and I want to modify them.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 8:02 p.m.

I am looking at making a bellhousing and using a T5 Trans.

I think the adapter plate deal is dodgy and may flex and needs alignment pins/sleeves.

Talking with my machinist this evening he thinks the plate is fine with the full circle bolting and some kind of alignment fixing.

Toyman01
Toyman01 UltimaDork
10/16/13 8:04 p.m.

I changed directions on this project. I'm going with the GM 60*V6. They are kind of shake and bake as far as mixing and matching parts and much narrower than the DOHC Ford. I'd like to put one in the Spitfire and there was no way the Ford would ever fit.

The Ford is still in the yard if anyone is interested.

yamaha
yamaha PowerDork
10/16/13 8:08 p.m.

In reply to bentwrench:

LoL, you think the sho v8 makes torque.......it doesn't.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 8:15 p.m.
Knurled wrote: I would have kept the whole engine and fixed it but for the fact that the water pump would want to coexist with the accelerator pedal in the chassis I'd want to stuff it into.

The water pump can be moved to the front of the motor like the Taurus or earlier years used. I noticed that the Escape uses the rear mount water pump also, that might be a year model issue.

carbon
carbon Reader
10/16/13 8:31 p.m.

Anyone who's been in a noble m12gto3r reads this thread and thinks about turbos the whole time.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 8:37 p.m.
yamaha wrote: In reply to bentwrench: LoL, you think the sho v8 makes torque.......it doesn't.

I don't know which V8, I assumed the 4.6

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 8:44 p.m.
Toyman01 wrote: I changed directions on this project. I'm going with the GM 60*V6. They are kind of shake and bake as far as mixing and matching parts and much narrower than the DOHC Ford. I'd like to put one in the Spitfire and there was no way the Ford would ever fit. The Ford is still in the yard if anyone is interested.

My cousin has done a few with the GM motor, the best was an MG it did require re-gearing, it runs like a raped ape and gets fantastic mileage.

My favorite was a Corolla with a Vulcan Ford V6, with a MegaSquirt that motor makes some amazing power Ford has cut it's nuts off with the electronics.

I want to use a Duratec with a MegaSquirt in a 67 Volvo 122 estate, I plan to set the motor back significantly. The transmission issue is holding me back from moving forward right now.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/16/13 8:49 p.m.
carbon wrote: Anyone who's been in a noble m12gto3r reads this thread and thinks about turbos the whole time.

Yes, once I get it sorted out I had thought of boosting it. That might be overkill though, maybe just a little Nitrous. Gotta see how the car works first.

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
10/17/13 12:31 p.m.
bentwrench wrote: My favorite was a Corolla with a Vulcan Ford V6, with a MegaSquirt that motor makes some amazing power

You mean the all-iron 3-liter with ports and chambers that look straight from the 50s, right?

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic SuperDork
10/17/13 12:35 p.m.

In reply to Knurled:

Ports and chambers from the 50s can work great if you have zero concern for what comes out the tailpipe and sufficient quantities of tetraethyl lead in the fuel.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/17/13 7:12 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
bentwrench wrote: My favorite was a Corolla with a Vulcan Ford V6, with a MegaSquirt that motor makes some amazing power
You mean the all-iron 3-liter with ports and chambers that look straight from the 50s, right?

Yes that pushrod afterbirth of a 2.6 Capri motor. That 3.0L rips good.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/17/13 7:17 p.m.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Knurled: Ports and chambers from the 50s can work great if you have zero concern for what comes out the tailpipe and sufficient quantities of tetraethyl lead in the fuel.

Sort of why I want to use a Duratec. But the Squirted Vulcan I'm sure will pass Hc and CO emmisions, not sure about Nox. It's burning regular pump unleaded......(not even premium, it doesn't have enough compression to need it)

Knurled
Knurled UberDork
10/18/13 12:39 p.m.
bentwrench wrote:
Knurled wrote:
bentwrench wrote: My favorite was a Corolla with a Vulcan Ford V6, with a MegaSquirt that motor makes some amazing power
You mean the all-iron 3-liter with ports and chambers that look straight from the 50s, right?
Yes that pushrod afterbirth of a 2.6 Capri motor. That 3.0L rips good.

Okay, not the engine I'm thinking of then.

AFAIK they never made a 3 liter variant of the Capri's engine, just the 2.6/2.8/2.9/4.0.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/18/13 3:52 p.m.
Knurled wrote:
bentwrench wrote:
Knurled wrote:
bentwrench wrote: My favorite was a Corolla with a Vulcan Ford V6, with a MegaSquirt that motor makes some amazing power
You mean the all-iron 3-liter with ports and chambers that look straight from the 50s, right?
Yes that pushrod afterbirth of a 2.6 Capri motor. That 3.0L rips good.
Okay, not the engine I'm thinking of then. AFAIK they never made a 3 liter variant of the Capri's engine, just the 2.6/2.8/2.9/4.0.

A 3.0L pushrod motor (vulcan?) is not the same design as the crapi motor? I assumed....

pres589
pres589 SuperDork
10/18/13 4:14 p.m.

In reply to bentwrench:

The 2.6 shown here in the Capri was the Koln aka Cologne V6. Think 4.0 Explorer or 2.8 Mustang II for that family of engines. They call call the Taunus V4 "dad".

Let me also state that anyone bragging on the 3.0 Vulcan shouldn't even be mentioning the 2.6 Capri engine, let alone slagging on it; they make a nice noise and get pretty good mpg. Power numbers from the factory after being federalized isn't too impressive but the Vulcan's numbers aren't either.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/19/13 8:14 a.m.
pres589 wrote: In reply to bentwrench: The 2.6 shown here in the Capri was the Koln aka Cologne V6. Think 4.0 Explorer or 2.8 Mustang II for that family of engines. They call call the Taunus V4 "dad". Let me also state that anyone bragging on the 3.0 Vulcan shouldn't even be mentioning the 2.6 Capri engine, let alone slagging on it; they make a nice noise and get pretty good mpg. Power numbers from the factory after being federalized isn't too impressive but the Vulcan's numbers aren't either.

Is the Taunus V4 the motor I've seen in a Saab (I think)? Looks like Saab Sonett III

That is what I found impressive with the Vulcan after ditching the Ford electronics and installing a MegaSquirt it came to life. And the sound it made could only be called music. When you fire it up heads turn.

I think the Duratec will be much better.

pres589
pres589 SuperDork
10/19/13 9:16 a.m.

In reply to bentwrench:

Yeah, the Taunus V4 as used in the Saabs post-2-stroke as well as the Taunus (duh) and I think a few early Capri's from Germany got them. Probably some other stuff.

The obvious characteristic showing the shared heritage of the Koln V6 and the Taunus V4 is how the 2.6 and I think 2.3 V6's used V4 exhaust manifolds, with a merged exhaust port between the middle and rear cylinders. This is probably the biggest reason why they sound the way they do.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
10/19/13 10:47 a.m.

That Taunus V4 was also widely used as an industrial engine. It has no common parts with the Vulcan motor, which IIRC was originally designed by Ford's Australian wing.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/27/13 4:56 p.m.

I have laid hands on a FWD trans bellhousing half that looks like I can make a RWD manual bellhousing out of it. I am waiting for monday to check with flywheel/clutch guru for availability of a 7.5" dual disc clutch with damper springs. She did not think she could fit a 10" clutch with the 139 tooth starter gear. I really want damper springs. What does the Noble use for a clutch, or does it have a slush box? searching.....

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/29/13 7:20 a.m.

Noble uses Fidanza flywheel #186251

searching.....

RossD
RossD PowerDork
10/29/13 7:46 a.m.

You should be able to get a custom clutch. I'd call up Taylor Race Engineering if there is no OEM solution. I'm sure there are other places to call too; they might be expensive (I've never used them, though).

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
10/29/13 9:45 p.m.
bentwrench wrote: Noble uses Fidanza flywheel #186251 searching.....

Crosschecked application Ford Contour (Cougar, Mysique) 2.5L same as 3.0L available from Jeggs $385

9.5" clutch 138 tooth ring gear compatible with all Duratec V6

Many clutch and cover options available.

bentwrench
bentwrench New Reader
12/3/13 7:22 a.m.

2.5L Contour Flywheel works on 3.0L verified.

Used 4.6L Ford ARP flywheel bolts to attach.

Dang $50 bolts did not come with washers for the aluminum flywheel....

I got a Exedy clutch cover that is good for 360 ftlbs torque, but sadly the TO and disc are not compatible with the Toyota W58 trans I am using, Toyota pilot bearing will fit in crank with a sleeve, if I pull the plug that is in it to center the auto converter.

I just need to find an internal hydraulic TO setup that will fit over the Toyota snout, then I can start on my trans adapter plate.

I can't find the internet guy that had header flanges for the 3.0L Duratec motor (I saw them somewhere), but I did find a local with a water jet cutter sympathetic to my needs. So exhaust is under way as well.

Got the MS2 system built and cleaned up the factory harness so it's ready to wire, still have to figure out the intake air valve business.

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