SCCA V8 Swap Classes

I've been putting some thought into this idea.  I mentioned it on CAM nation and was promptly shot down(surprise, surprise).  There are several popular cars with off-the-shelf LS swap kits that don't have a home in SCCA.

Nissan S-chassis

BMW E30, E46

RX7

BRZ/FR-S

Solstice/Sky

350z/370z

Camaro/Mustang

Pontiac Fiero

Porshe

Miata

I thought a class to give these cars a home would attract some people to AutoX and also inspire some badass builds with people knowing they would actually be able to run them.  My current idea is 3 classes from mild to wild with basic tire width/weight restrictions.

Street; 3400lb min weight, 255 max tire, 200tw, Street Legal, Stock Aero

Sport; 3000lb min weight, 295 max tire, 200 tw, Street Legal, 2" splitter/8" spoiler, no wings

Unlimited; 2600lb min weight, 345 max tire, DOT Legal, no TW restriction, no slicks, Street Modified Aero rules

Feel free to criticize, you probably wont be the first or last.

if i had a car that fit any of those guidelines, i'd appreciate having a class to run in.

I'm pretty sure Street Mod/Super Street Mod allows cross-brand engine swaps now. You just have to take a weight penalty

In reply to NickD :

It would be comparable to my Unlimited class proposal but your stuck with 1800lbs min weight and Hoosiers. Not at all friendly to the average swapped car.  Not every LS swap is a full blown racecar, plenty of people daily drive them.

NickD said:

I'm pretty sure Street Mod/Super Street Mod allows cross-brand engine swaps now. You just have to take a weight penalty

Yup, it's a 150lb penalty, plus a displacement based formula. Apparently this rule change is not yet well known, because I had several people question the legality of my LS1-swapped FC for SM last season.

NickD said:

I'm pretty sure Street Mod/Super Street Mod allows cross-brand engine swaps now. You just have to take a weight penalty

I need to look into this new rule!

In reply to Furious_E :

What is your min weight?  I can't seem to find the correct spot in the rule book at this moment.

*I think I found it.  1800lbs for piston engine over 4500cc  

In reply to Patientzero :

IMHO, Street Mod is the right place for these types of builds. Aside from needing purple crack to run at the pointy end of the field, there isn't much in the rule set that would preclude a daily driven street car from running there (even then, you're not going to be driving to work on 345 200TW auto x tires anyway, nor are they much, if any, cheaper than 275 HoHos.)

In general, I'd much rather see SCCA open up some of the existing classes a bit and adapt them to the current state of the car hobby, as they did in this case, rather than further fracture the field by creating more and more specialized little classes to account for every contingency. Running in a field of 8-12 is much more fun than competing against yourself, or maybe 1-2 other cars, even if you're solidly mid-pack like me 

In reply to Patientzero :

That's not right. I forget the formula offhand, but for my build in particular, with a 5.7 L engine, it comes out to right around 2700lbs. I've got a printed copy of the 2018 rules at home that I can check tonight if no one figures it out before then. 

There have been rumblings for a CAM style class for non-american cars.  I think it is coming soon because every region I have visited has a big Street Modified on Street Tire class.  It is mostly for people who are building cars for themselves instead of for the autocross rules.  There are enough that I think the SCCA should cater to them.

I disagree with limiting tire width by class in your example.  The problem is that you could not run a brand new Mustang or Camaro in the class because the stock wheels are too wide.

I think minimum weights are too high.  An early Miata would need about 500lbs of ballast to make minimum weight.  An LS motor is only worth a few hundred pounds of that.  Of the cars you listed, only the most recent gen of pony cars would fit into the proposed stock class at factory weight.

What is the difference between a street mod car and the unlimited class car other than the extra weight? Hoosier A7s are technically not racing slicks. They are DOT legal.  Street Mod cars have full interior, at least for the front seats.

Would there be room in any of the above classes for a V8 swap MGB, MGA, or Triumph? I'd love to see cars of this sort/caliber be driven hard on the track (not just autocross) rather than just to and from car shows and cruise nights.

Patientzero said:

In reply to Furious_E :

What is your min weight?  I can't seem to find the correct spot in the rule book at this moment.

 

*I think I found it.  1800lbs for piston engine over 4500cc  

for SSM, Im reading it as 1600 lbs plus 150 for non-manufacturer, plus 200 per liter. So 5 liter LS would be 2750 minimum weight. No car in SSM is required to weight more than 2900, so basically all LS swaps will be in that range. Might be a little less for SM. if you run less than 275 tires then you get to remove 200 lbs, so miata LS swaps could probably run at a 2550 min weight. 

Where is the 200lb per liter part?  Is this for E-modified or am I looking at the wrong thing?

I see piston engine unlimited displacement 1800, non manufacturer engine add 150, RWD with less than 51% on drive wheels deduct 50

In reply to Patientzero :

IIRC, there's a note that says "See Appendix X," which is where the displacement based formula is given. 

For 2 seat vs 4 seat vehicle, is this how it came from the factory or currently?

Furious_E said:

In reply to Patientzero :

IIRC, there's a note that says "See Appendix X," which is where the displacement based formula is given. 

Yep, appendix a in the street mod section.

I’m interested in this discussion. Finishing an LS1 e36 and would enjoy competing against other swapped cars. 

In reply to Robbie :

I don't see anything about displacement for modified, only for prepared.  Maybe I just can't read.

"Modified class E (EM) Modified Production and GT cars as follows:

A. Weight with driver vs. Displacement (lbs.):

• Piston engines up to & including 3200 cc OHC...........................1700

• Piston engines up to & including 4500 cc pushrod/OHV ...........1700

• 2-rotor rotary engines with unrestricted porting ........................1700

• Piston engines unlimited displacement...................................... 1800

• 3-rotor rotary engines with unrestricted porting ....................... 1800

• Electric powerplants (non-hybrid).............................................. 1800

B. Performance Adjustments (lb.):

• AWD....................................................................................... Add 300

• Modified Tub ............................................................................Add 50

• TSC......................................................................................... Add 300

• ABS and/or SCS (no additional weight adjustment)............. Add 375

C. Weight Bias Adjustment with driver sitting in the driver’s seat (lbs.):

• RWD with less than 51% weight on drive wheels ...............Deduct 50

• FWD.....................................................................................Deduct 50

There are 4 existing classes for V8 swaps. 

ESP: pony cars can update/backdate if on the same line, plus the catch all of "other sedans over 3.0l not otherwise classified".

SM/SSM: Any engine from a production automobile but assessed a 150 lb weight adjustment for unrelated engines, plus the other minimum weights.

XP: with minimum weights.

EM: with minimum weights.

Almost every region runs an STM (Street Tire Modified) class, if they don't, they should.

I'm an idiot, I've been looking at "Modified", not "Street Modified", lol.  I see what you guys see now.

There is supposed to be a SCCA Solo class category coming that some of these cars may fit into... 

Ojannen is right on the money with regional STM, Street Tire and STO classes being having good subscription in many places. 


I do not expect anything Miata or 90's honda to have a place in it though...  those cars already have a home in SSM, SMF and XP. 

 

My torque arm would kick me out of SM.

"E. Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the original attachment points."

"G. Subframe connectors are allowed as per Street Prepared Section 15.2.E"

"E. Longitudinal (fore-aft) subframe connectors (SFCs) are permitted with the following restrictions:

        6. SFCs may not be used to attach other components (including but not limited to torque arm front mounts or driveshaft loops) and may serve no other purpose."

Patientzero said:

Street; 3400lb min weight, 255 max tire, 200tw, Street Legal, Stock Aero

The heaviest class has the smallest tire limit?

255s are downright tiny on anything in that weight range, and likely smaller than factory on the newish stuff.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Not at all, 2015 Mustangs come with 235 or 255, BRZ's come with 195's,  255's are common on 240sx's,  E46 BMW's come with 225's.

This keeps the classes competitive.  Any of the cars I mentioned in my first post would be able to make any of the weights.  You can have a stockish LS swapped car and run in the street class or you can build a full race car and run in the Unlimited class.  I think these keeps it extremely fair.