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ddavidv SuperDork
2/1/11 5:57 a.m.
ransom wrote: http://www.hawkcars.co.uk/hf3000/index.html They drove one on Top Gear a while back, though I don't think they were terribly impressed. But there it is, a Stratos replica.

The Hawk kit was offered here for awhile (it may still be) and I looked into getting one pretty seriously. The problem I found with them was they were a little too much like the original, and I didn't fit in the damn thing (for certain, not with a helmet on, and if I can't do that, what's the point?). My other gripe with the Hawk was it relied on lackluster Lancia Beta 4 cylinder drivetrain parts, but they've since remedied that with a V6 option.

The Stratos is a very tiny car, and it's short wheelbase makes it a handful. I'd love to have one, but a 037 would probably be a better choice.

pres589 HalfDork
2/1/11 8:18 a.m.

In reply to ddavidv:

No reason why FF couldn't widen the car by, say, four to six inches. It seems like half the problem with fitting humans in it is the width vs. every other dimension.

Slyp_Dawg Reader
2/1/11 8:19 a.m.

personally, I would prefer an 037, to me they just look cooler than the Stratos imho. I may be in the minority, but a monstrous, mid-engined box just pushes all the right buttons and pushes them harder than a wedge of cheese with a short wheelbase and a Ferrari V6. and it would be less twitchy so less owners would end up eating a shrubbery as they become part of the scenery

a bit OT, but I wonder if anyone has compared a roadgoing 037 to a roadgoing 288 GTO? it seems like performance would be similar and I would be slightly surprised if they aren't at least somewhat related

alternately, if they hadn't said mid-engined... an Audi Quattro S1 from the end of the Gr. B era or even one of the hillclimb Quattro S1s would certainly be interesting

pres589 wrote: In reply to ddavidv: No reason why FF couldn't widen the car by, say, four to six inches. It seems like half the problem with fitting humans in it is the width vs. every other dimension.

the problem with that is it amplifies the effect of a short wheelbase by giving the car closer to a square stance (wheelbase and track width equal) which would make the car even twitchier

Matt B
Matt B HalfDork
2/1/11 8:51 a.m.

I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a porsche replica, considering the engine choice. As someone mentioned before, a 904 would be dead sexy.

That said, I wouldn't kick an 037 out of the garage either.

An early Lotus Esprit body that wouldn't fall apart when you sneeze on it would also be awesome. Probably not rare enough to warrant a replica though.

In the end, what I really want is a Miura. Needz moar cylinders though.

Did someone mention automotive ADD?

pres589 HalfDork
2/1/11 9:07 a.m.

In reply to Slyp_Dawg:

Wider track shouldn't make the car more twitchy; is the American Honda Accord more twitchy than the European Accord?

Or maybe it does and I'm just not seeing it. But off the top of my head I can't see why.

Daddy_Rocket New Reader
2/1/11 9:07 a.m.

904, 959, or stratos would be trick.

Either way, I love FFR.

Daddy_Rocket New Reader
2/1/11 9:10 a.m.

In reply to Slyp_Dawg:

It's more about the ratio between track length and track width at work here. Like he said, the more square you get, the more twitchy it becomes. The polar moments for rotation go all sorts of wonky on you. Think of how those go-karts are so quick and twitchy, and fortunately light, and you get close to the effect.

oldsaw SuperDork
2/1/11 9:16 a.m.

In reply to Daddy_Rocket:

If by "track length" you mean wheelbase dimensions, I'll agree. Short wheelbase cars (like the Stratos) with lots of power are twitchy. A mid-engine configuration just makes it more entertaining!

sachilles Dork
2/1/11 10:17 a.m.

I don't care what the body look like. Mid engine subaru goodness, with competition oriented setup says fun to me. As long as it doesn't look like a pontiac aztek, I'd probably like it.

dyintorace SuperDork
2/1/11 4:14 p.m.

I think it's a good direction for FFR. If this crowd is any indication, the combo of a mid-engine layout and WRM mechanicals will be very well received by a segment of the market that FFR hasn't necessarily appealed to previously (more of the muscle car crowd). They certainly have a nice track record so this new product should be great too.

LJD New Reader
2/1/11 4:58 p.m.
dyintorace wrote: ... will be very well received by a segment of the market that FFR hasn't necessarily appealed to previously (more of the muscle car crowd) ...

^Agreed. As cool as the Cobra, Daytona Coupe and '33 Hot Rod are ... they're just not my thing. RCR's line-up suits me better, but that may change soon.

dsycks Reader
2/2/11 5:25 a.m.

I would really dig a light simple exo car.

dculberson Reader
2/2/11 9:54 a.m.

Personal theory is that it won't be an exo car. Obviously this is wild ass guess, but I think that FFR knows the market, and I think the exo car market is pretty well served with the Atom. There's just not that many people looking for that type of vehicle. At least, not that many people looking to spend real money on one. And an FFR kit will be done right, and it will cost real money.

carguy123 SuperDork
2/2/11 10:10 a.m.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
2/2/11 10:45 a.m.

In reply to carguy123:

Where is that car from?

Forgive a WRX-noob qestion, but the transmission won't care if the rear driveshaft is no longer used?

IMHO, the Atom is woefully over-priced and believe there would be a market for a reasonably priced kit.

camaroz1985 Reader
2/2/11 11:52 a.m.

You can make a coupler that elimnates the center differential, and only sends power to what were the front wheels.

Either that or use a FWD transmission, but they are weaker, and proably don't have good gear ratios for the turbo engine.

Jay_W HalfDork
2/2/11 11:57 a.m.

This thread is dangerous to my bank balance.

T.J. SuperDork
2/2/11 11:59 a.m.

Bremar link

Here is how you use a Subie AWD transmission in a mid-engined rear wheel drive application. There is also a guy in Tennessee who makes Porcshe speedster replicas that essentially does the same thing in order to use subaru drivetrains.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 HalfDork
2/2/11 12:25 p.m.

I hadn't thought of the porsche possibilities. It's been done, but a good 550 replica would push me over the edge. The one's I've see all use some variation of VW front suspension and the rears are almost all questionable. Thunder Ranch has been doing Subaru engines for a few years in them, but a full FFR kit with decent suspension would be awesome. And put most other 550 replica companies out of business in short order.

The 550 or similar sure fits their business model (familiar body shapes, modern mechanicals). Not getting my hopes up though.

carguy123 SuperDork
2/2/11 2:37 p.m.
Ian F wrote: In reply to carguy123: Where is that car from?


There are 11 pages to this build so far. They are beginning work on a WRX powered version on the last page.

neon4891 SuperDork
2/2/11 6:35 p.m.
dsycks wrote: I would really dig a light simple exo car.

For an FFR EXO car, just dont install the body.

madpanda New Reader
2/4/11 2:05 a.m.
NGTD wrote:
sachilles wrote:
madpanda wrote: Oooh, Do you guys think it would be possible to get around the insurance issues and make this eligible for stage rally I would even be happy with a FF5 Stratos Spec Rally Cross class :D
Not so much insurance being the problem, it's classification amongst the north american rally organizations. Without it being a production car, I don't think they'd let you run it.
Under current rules you are correct - it would not be allowed to run. It also would not be allowed if the body is made of something except metal.

Yeah, I agree with what you guys are saying. I just figured that the reson behind the current rules is ultimately insurance/safety in general. For an insurance company it is probably easier to believe that a production based metal car has reliable brakes and will not set itself on fire than a car somebody built in their garage. FFR has done it with their cobra replicas for track events though so here is hoping that it can be done for rallies (fingers crossed).

sachilles Dork
2/4/11 10:10 a.m.

Madpanda, mostly it's just a classification thing. Rally tends to be based on production cars. Allowing kits would move the cars, competitiveness and budgets well above the current norms. There is no doubt you could make a kit car more than safe enough to satisfy the insurance guys. I think they've just made a conscious effort to exclude them.

93EXCivic SuperDork
2/4/11 10:14 a.m.

Exactly that rules is basically what keeps rally from turning into F1.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
2/10/11 11:18 a.m.

If you like the idea of a Factory Five kit with WRX power, you're in the right place. Expect big news on the subject to be announced RIGHT HERE in the next three weeks.

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