Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
10/8/20 12:06 p.m.
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About 52 years ago this month at the 1968 Paris Motor Show, Volkswagen unveiled a newer, bigger car built to better suit the needs of families: the Type 4.

Based on a new unibody construction, the Type 4—also known as the 411 and, later, as the 412—borrowed its rear-mounted f…

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Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie HalfDork
10/8/20 1:04 p.m.

Wasn't the Type 4 used in 914s and Buses as well? 

It was also a good swap for dune buggies and VW based kit cars. 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie HalfDork
10/8/20 1:18 p.m.

The "Cody Coyote" from Hardcastle and McCormick was the most famous TV car to ever use the Type 4 engine....

 

And most of the 914s are Type 4s...

 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
10/8/20 4:20 p.m.

title needs to be "The 411-412 marked......."

The motor kept going to 1979 in VW buses  ( also had 1600cc in many markets) and maybe later other places ......

As far as I know , Type 4 motors were only made in Germany .

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
10/8/20 5:38 p.m.

There actually were different engines.   The type one  ended at 1600 cc and had the vertical fan.

 The type 2 engine aka Bus was 2000 cc, although some early versions were 1600.  It had the fan on the end of the crankshaft. 

My memory tells me that US 411,s had the type 2 engine.

It's been a long time when I worked for a VW dealer in that time period

02Pilot
02Pilot UltraDork
10/8/20 5:42 p.m.

My parents owned two from new: a green 411 wagon, followed by a gold 412 wagon. Apparently the 411 was dramatically more reliable than the 412. I have little to no recollection, but then I was very young. I would love to get my hands on one of any sort, but ideally a wagon, at some point.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
10/8/20 6:19 p.m.
iceracer said:

There actually were different engines.   The type one  ended at 1600 cc and had the vertical fan.

 The type 2 engine aka Bus was 2000 cc, although some early versions were 1600.  It had the fan on the end of the crankshaft. 

My memory tells me that US 411,s had the type 2 engine.

It's been a long time when I worked for a VW dealer in that time period

more info  most probably do not give a pile about , \

Type 4 / 914 engines have basically the same crankcase , 

they came in 1700cc , 1800cc , and 2 liter which was only 1911cc

They also sold a 1600 type 4 that was used in Super V racing , I had a new one in the crate !

USA buses 1972 and later had Type 4 motors , but most of Europe kept the 1600cc bug based motor as gasoline was expensive.

The normal Type one bug motor used the same basic engine case for 1200cc, 1300cc, 1500cc and 1600cc

1200cc was our "40 horse" that started in 1961 thru 1965 in the USA but went up to the 1980s in the Mexican bugs that were sold in Germany , 

1300cc motor used 69mm stroke cranks as did 1500-1600cc , the USA had them in 1966 only but they were sold in Europe later for Countries that taxed cars by engine size ( Italy was one ) , they were even in buses !  (77mm bore)

1500cc motor started in 1962 Type 3  Squarebacks and Notchbacks , and in 1964 -67 buses ,  (83mm bore)

1600s started in 1968 buses and I think 1966 Type 3 Squarebacks and Notchbacks. , and I think 1970 bugs  (85.5 bore)

we could get into cylinder heads but thats as confusing !

I think that is all for now ,  I think I got most of that correct ,  Yes I know too much about VWs , 

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie HalfDork
10/8/20 6:28 p.m.

In reply to iceracer :

Originally the bus was called the Type 2 as opposed to the beetle that was called the Type 1. 

They also had Type 1, 2 and 3 engines. Then they made the 411s and 412s with bigger engines and called them Type 4s. Type 4s  also went into 4 cylinder 914s. 

In 1972 they started putting Type 4 engines into Type 2 buses. Buses built in 1971 and before had the same Type 1 engines the beetle had. 

 

So you can have a Volkswagen Type 2 (bus) with a Type 4 engine. Confused yet? 

 

bludroptop
bludroptop UltraDork
10/8/20 6:54 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Nice summary-well done. 
 

You are correct about US market Type 3 we're twin carb 1600 pancake starting in 1966.  Mom had one from new.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
10/8/20 7:11 p.m.
bludroptop said:

In reply to californiamilleghia :
 

You are correct about US market Type 3 we're twin carb 1600 pancake starting in 1966.  Mom had one from new.

type 3 also had a single side draft in the standard model ,

I had a real nice 1963 Notchback standard model  with the side draft  and VERY  low mileage

vwfreek
vwfreek Reader
10/10/20 10:30 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

title needs to be "The 411-412 marked......."

The motor kept going to 1979 in VW buses  ( also had 1600cc in many markets) and maybe later other places ......

As far as I know , Type 4 motors were only made in Germany .

The Type 4 motor was also available in Vanagons until 1983 and the one year only 1976 Porsche 912E.

I've always wanted a 412, but most of them around here rusted out long ago. My parents had a couple of them in the '80s and they were already rusting apart then.

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
10/10/20 10:47 p.m.

I’m kind of surprised I’ve never heard of these or seen one in person. I’m 38, so obviously I missed their hay day, but still.

HundredDollarCar
HundredDollarCar New Reader
10/11/20 10:57 a.m.

In reply to Snowdoggie :

Sounds like it needs valves adjusted?  Maybe just cold.

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
10/11/20 12:36 p.m.

Later type 2's had dual carbs with automatic chokes.

One of the reasons for the demise of the type 1 engine was the interstates.   The engine could not sustain long high speed running.

mad_machine (Forum Supporter)
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/11/20 12:39 p.m.

I've always wanted a 412, but most of them around here rusted out long ago. My parents had a couple of them in the '80s and they were already rusting apart then.

same here.  I wanted a Type 4 squareback in the worst way back in the late 80s when the VW crowd was still sticking their nose up in the air over anything that was not a Type1 or 2

Snowdoggie
Snowdoggie HalfDork
10/11/20 1:14 p.m.
mad_machine (Forum Supporter) said:

I've always wanted a 412, but most of them around here rusted out long ago. My parents had a couple of them in the '80s and they were already rusting apart then.

same here.  I wanted a Type 4 squareback in the worst way back in the late 80s when the VW crowd was still sticking their nose up in the air over anything that was not a Type1 or 2

The beetles and buses are getting expensive so now they are going after squarebacks and fastbacks to restore. Kind of like early 911s and 912s getting expensive so the last aircooled sports cars left are 914s and Karmann Ghias.

buzzboy
buzzboy Dork
10/11/20 1:32 p.m.
Snowdoggie said:

In reply to iceracer :

Originally the bus was called the Type 2 as opposed to the beetle that was called the Type 1. 

They also had Type 1, 2 and 3 engines.

There were only Type 1 and Type 4 engines. The engine in the Type 3 was a a Type 1 engine with a different cooling shroud. The Type 2(Transporter) got a Type 1 or Type 4 engine depending on year.

There's also the number code for the cars. For example, a Thing is a Type 181, the first digit implying it was based off the Type 1 chassis. There was also the Type 34 Ghia implying it was based on the Type 3 chassis unlike the regular Ghia which was a Type 14, based on the Type 1(Beelte) chassis.

 

 

DWNSHFT
DWNSHFT Dork
10/11/20 8:20 p.m.
iceracer said:

One of the reasons for the demise of the type 1 engine was the interstates.   The engine could not sustain long high speed running.

My understanding is that the original Beetle was designed to run at top speed until the tank ran dry.  That was 100 KPH.  The cylinder head flow was maxed out at that speed and the engine would not over-rev (in top gear only, of course.)

buzzboy
buzzboy Dork
10/12/20 7:06 a.m.

My beetle seemed pretty happy going 75 for hours at a time. Only problem was the loud exhaust which fatigued me.

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