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NoviceClass
NoviceClass New Reader
1/21/20 8:55 p.m.

In need of replacing my current GM 2500. It's been a great truck for me, but it's getting quite a few miles, just a bit over 300,000.

Looking at gas motor trucks, don't want a diesel. 6.2 for Ford, 6.0 for GM. I lean towards GM (looking at 2015-2017 models) since I have had really good past experience with them, but historically, the interior materials seem to wear faster than Fords. My GM experience is the interior falls off, breaks, rattles and  crumbles apart, but the truck happily trundles down the road. And lastly the curmudgeon in me thinks the newer trucks just have a bunch of electronic nonsense that will break and cost a bundle to fix.

I have always liked the Ford F250 (looking at 2012-2017) but just don't know too much about the longevity of the 6.2 and whatever trans they are running lately. There seems to be on and off fussing about death wobble on the solid axle F250. That makes me leery, since it's such a difficult issue to correct once your truck suffers from it. Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 opinions on what causes it. The couple of F250s that I have driven seem to have quite a bit more bump steer than I am accustomed to in the GM I currently drive, which makes my brain think the death wobble can't be far behind.

Anyhow, opinions, rants, or alcohol fueled tirades are welcome.

Patientzero
Patientzero Reader
1/21/20 10:23 p.m.

My brother's company has about 10 trucks that are replaced every couple years and make weekly trips from Missouri to Texas on mowing routes.  Every time it's time for new trucks they go through this same argument.  They take into account the initial price, maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc. 

They have tried a few Fords but keep going back to Chevy.  They factor in having to replace the transmissions once on the Chevy and it still makes more financial sense to them with the research they've done.(6 routes per week x 2500 miles per route).  I've recommended they install a big ass trans cooler on these trucks and it would probably alleviate the trans problem too.

Strictly gas trucks, they tried diesel too but the higher initial cost and operating costs doesn't make up for the increase in gas mileage.

buzzboy
buzzboy HalfDork
1/21/20 11:01 p.m.
NoviceClass said:historically, the interior materials seem to wear faster than Fords. My GM experience is the interior falls off, breaks, rattles and  crumbles apart, but the truck happily trundles down the road.

It's too bad. If only chevy could make a work truck interior like ford. I love the old XL interiors. I rented a 2015 Uhaul 1/2ton GMC though and was very happy with the interior after putting ~1000 miles on it. It was quiet, comfy and simple(being a stripper). I thought it was way better in every way than my dad's 2017 Colorado Z71.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
1/22/20 5:08 a.m.

In reply to NoviceClass :

I was a life long GM loyalist. My last Chevy went 371,000+ miles nearly trouble free in spite of massively overworking it hauling my new house home piece(s) at a time.  
 

Yet  in 2017 I bought a new Ford. I'm very glad I did. At 50,000 miles it has been as trouble free as my Chevy While getting significantly superior fuel mileage with lower fuel costs.( more about that in a moment) 

The reason I selected the new Ford  was the Aluminum body.  Military grade aluminum is less likely to rust ( corrode)  while yielding better fuel mileage. They are reportedly 800 pounds light than the Chevy. So they feel faster, ride more gently, and contrary to GM advertisements not as prone to denting. ( Well if you dump concrete blocks in your bed or toss the corner of a heavy tool box in, you have to have the rubber floor mat to prevent damage.).    

So after 3 years and 50,000 miles my truck has no dents in it. 
Now what do I mean by costs less to drive?  
I spent an extra $99  for the flex fuel option. 
I can use E85 or any gasoline.  Right now E85 sells for $2.09 a gallon and hasn't changed in over a year. While gas varies between $2.59 and $2.46  a gallon over the same period. 
 

My Ford averages 22.6mpg on 87 octane and 20.7 on E85. That saves me $10 a tank with E85 over 87 octane. But if you do the calculations , after figuring Lower fuel mileage nets me only a $5 a tank savings.  Would you bend over to pick up a $5 bill?  If you drive 300,000 miles that's a $3750 savings assuming gas prices don't increase in that time. If they do, the savings will be higher. 
 

But even if it cost me money I'd still use it. 
In a word?  POWER!  
 edit; my son in law bought a Chevy  six months before I bought my Ford.  His Chevy already has a little rust peeking out at the edges and my Ford is completely free. 

 

I know you want a 3/4 ton but new trucks have so much towing capacity that a 1/2 ton with the tow package can now pull what a 1 ton used to pull.  Wheels are bigger brakes are bigger springs etc etc etc. 

I Towed a tandem axle trailer, with over 5600 pounds of load on a 2700 pound trailer from San Diego and it was like it wasn't there. 
Well  my fuel mileage went down to 16.1 mpg. From 22.7  but that was out west where 75 mph was in the slow lane and being passed by everyone!!!!!  
Yes I have the towing package with that back up assist where you can back up hands free. ( it has a little knob that you can make backing turns with and the trailer stays right behind you).  
One other feature I really like is the transmission temp gauge in the gauge package. Coming back from San Diego with that heavy load across the desert and up the mountains. It barely moved higher than empty. But it's nice to have the gauge to watch. 

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
1/22/20 7:31 a.m.

I predict 'military grade' will become the next 'heavy duty'.  You can't even buy regular duty anything.  Everything is 'heavy duty'.  Everything will become 'military grade' given our obsession with all things military, law enforcement, and first responder since 9/11.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
1/22/20 7:41 a.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Which engine do you have in your truck?  The 5.0 or one of the Ecoboosts?  I've rented an F150 with the 5.0 from uhaul a few times and been pretty happy with it.  Endless power and with the 10 speed transmission the gas mileage is decent for a full sized truck.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
1/22/20 8:48 a.m.
A 401 CJ said:

I predict 'military grade' will become the next 'heavy duty'.  You can't even buy regular duty anything.  Everything is 'heavy duty'.  Everything will become 'military grade' given our obsession with all things military, law enforcement, and first responder since 9/11.

You don't remember when everything good was mil-spec?

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
1/22/20 9:09 a.m.
A 401 CJ said:

I predict 'military grade' will become the next 'heavy duty'.  You can't even buy regular duty anything.  Everything is 'heavy duty'.  Everything will become 'military grade' given our obsession with all things military, law enforcement, and first responder since 9/11.

Oh no... it's "tactical" that's become the next "heavy duty". The word "tactical" has the advantage of suggesting military without actually having to conform to any military specifications.

Example: The Ka-Bar Tactical Spoon! 

Compare to actual US military issue spoon in the picture below.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ Dork
1/22/20 9:13 a.m.

I'd find out what the Italian Army eats with.  That's my choice :-)

morello159
morello159 Reader
1/22/20 9:27 a.m.

Ford gets my vote for the reasons you mentioned - GM interiors fall apart after 25k miles. The 6.2 is part of the mod motor family, and not a high feature version. Variable cam timing is about the only modern thing on it. Think scaled up crown victoria motor. I wouldn't have any concerns about the longevity of that engine at all. The gasser uses the same 6R140 trans as the 6.7 Powerstroke, so you're pretty safe there too. 

Vigo
Vigo MegaDork
1/22/20 10:23 a.m.

I'm also a fan of Ford truck interiors. 

I haven't heard much about 6.2 reliability. They're old enough by now that I take that to mean they found a way to keep the cam gears from rattling when oil pressure drops below 30... 

Honestly the worst thing about buying a newish 6.2 Ford is probably just that the new 7.3 exists. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
1/22/20 10:44 a.m.
infinitenexus said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Which engine do you have in your truck?  The 5.0 or one of the Ecoboosts?  I've rented an F150 with the 5.0 from uhaul a few times and been pretty happy with it.  Endless power and with the 10 speed transmission the gas mileage is decent for a full sized truck.

The 5.0 and if you think the 5.0 is decent try the  5.0 on E 85 

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltimaDork
1/22/20 10:48 a.m.

Gm guy checking in. I assume you are looking at the HD versions of both? I would pick the GM, your own experience speaks to it's reliability. Drive a few of each before making a final choice.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
1/22/20 10:58 a.m.
NoviceClass said:

I lean towards GM (looking at 2015-2017 models) since I have had really good past experience with them, but historically, the interior materials seem to wear faster than Fords. My GM experience is the interior falls off, breaks, rattles and  crumbles apart, but the truck happily trundles down the road. And lastly the curmudgeon in me thinks the newer trucks just have a bunch of electronic nonsense that will break and cost a bundle to fix.

I have always liked the Ford F250 (looking at 2012-2017) but just don't know too much about the longevity of the 6.2 and whatever trans they are running lately. There seems to be on and off fussing about death wobble on the solid axle F250. That makes me leery, since it's such a difficult issue to correct once your truck suffers from it. Ask 100 people and you'll get 100 opinions on what causes it. The couple of F250s that I have driven seem to have quite a bit more bump steer than I am accustomed to in the GM I currently drive, which makes my brain think the death wobble can't be far behind.

I went from a 2000 Ford F350 with 160,000 miles to a 1992 Chevy K3500 with 230,000 miles, and the Chevy is _still_ a better truck.  Yes, the interior is way more beat up but like you said, GM trucks run poorly longer than most other vehicles run, period.

That said, for something as new as you're looking at, I'd see what dealer is most convenient for you to work with, who can get you the truck you need for the best price, and which one you like driving best.  Solid front axles are all the rage for the hard core off roaders, but I feel like for 99% of truck users the independent front suspension is a better deal.  

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
1/22/20 11:01 a.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Have you tried towing a heavy load with a modern 1/2 ton pickup?  It willl really surprise you. 

yupididit
yupididit UberDork
1/22/20 11:34 a.m.

Milspec/grade to me means, lowest bidder accepted lol. Quality? Toss up! 

Brake_L8
Brake_L8 Reader
1/22/20 11:41 a.m.

I have a hard time recommending GM given my personal experiences with both older and newer vehicles they produce, trucks and otherwise.

Regardless of brand, a modern half-ton may do what you need and do it well. Worth a consideration. How much weight/payload do you need?

If you go Ford half-ton, be wary of the 2018+ 5.0L V8s. There are some TSBs (technical service bulletins) for a few engine issues, and Ford's recommended fixes don't seem to consistently fix the issues. I had my 2018 F-150 bought back due to the variable cam timing solenoids making a racket. Oil consumption is the other issue.

The pre-2018 5.0 is excellent and the 6.2L in the older F-150 and older/current F-250 seems to be very well regarded. Transmissions are the 6R80 in F-150 or 6R140 in F-250 gasser. Also great. The 10R80 in 2018+ is good but not great compared to the older 6-speeds IMO.

As for Ford vs. GM... interior styling is a matter of preference, though the GM trucks don't do it for me like the Fords do. I prefer Ford's execution and ergonomics. GM seems to have the better seats. I have never driven a GM truck with good brake pedal feel. Ford trucks are better in that regard, I think.

Also, uh... Ram? I replaced my F-150 with a 2016 1500 Sport and it's been excellent. Seems the complaints of 80s/90s Chrysler transmissions have slowed rapidly with their more modern trucks. My 1500 uses the ZF 8-speed and it's great.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
1/22/20 11:50 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to volvoclearinghouse :

Have you tried towing a heavy load with a modern 1/2 ton pickup?  It willl really surprise you. 

I'm sure they're plenty capable.  But my K3500 does what I need it to do.  I'm not a tradesperson; I put about 2-3000 miles per year on my truck pulling, towing, and doing tractor-like chores around the homestead.  I can fix it with a voltmeter and handtools, and parts are as close to free as for any other vehicle.  

penultimeta
penultimeta HalfDork
1/22/20 12:57 p.m.

In my experience as a medic, my company tried a few GMs and we've just found that the Fords last longer, wear better, and are overall cheaper to operate and run.  We run them constantly nearly 24 hours a day and have some older units (well, 3-4 years old) with nearly 500k on them. They take the abuse of city traffic, rough rural roads, and inexperienced ambulance drivers and just keep going. I've never owned a full size truck, but if I had the need for one, it'd be ford all day and twice on Sunday.   

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
1/22/20 2:08 p.m.

In reply to penultimeta :

These are F350 chassis or F450+?
 

I'm happy to hear about the longevity of the Fords for some reason. I drive a GMC but I think I'm a Ford guy.

 

penultimeta
penultimeta HalfDork
1/22/20 5:28 p.m.

F350. Sorry for the ambiguity 

Dave M
Dave M HalfDork
1/22/20 5:37 p.m.

Maybe it's fair to say that both companies make good trucks, despite their individual quirks and occasional flaw? That's not surprising considering that without their pickup sales both companies would literally be out of business.

rico750sxi_2
rico750sxi_2 New Reader
1/22/20 6:43 p.m.

A Ford vs. Chevy question on an Internet forum will never yield a definitive answer in my opinion. That's mostly what you will get is opinions. To me, it's seems both are good trucks and if you search the internet long enough you'll read so many horror stories about each that you'll want a Ram. Then you will read crappy things about the Ram you'll be scared of that too. And so on and so on... 

 

Patientzero
Patientzero Reader
1/22/20 6:51 p.m.

In my opinion the RAM is not in the same class as the Chevy or Ford from an engineering and quality standpoint.  Yes, they are nice.  I had one that I honestly liked alot until the trans went belly up.  But, on that same truck the wiring harness to the rear door destroyed itself just from opening and closing the door.  Overall the trucks are pretty good but it's the little things that Dodge hasn't caught up to Chevy/Ford yet. 

 

In response to the 1/2 ton capability argument.  A new 1/2 ton will put a 15-20 year old 1 ton to shame.  I pull my Mustang on my 18ft steel flat trailer with my 2010 5.4L F150 and it does great.  My dad's 2019 Ecoboost F150 pulls it like it's not even there.  The 10 speed transmission is phenomenal.  

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
1/22/20 9:09 p.m.

In reply to rico750sxi_2 :

I remember when I was 10 riding the school bus, and having long, heated debates over who made the better truck, Ford or GM. And none of us were even old enough to drive.

As for the 1/2 ton capability thing, the one thing you cannot get in a half ton is a long bed with a crew cab. For me, that would be a deal breaker. My k3500 is a crew cab long bed and with a family it's a God send. Short beds are worthless in my opinion; hell there's times when the 8 foot bed isn't enough.

I don't even know if you can get an 8' bed with an extended cab anymore.

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