I spent the yesterday autoxing my M3 (woot -- second in class, and fourth overall). At the end of the day I noticed really noisy lifters upon start up. The sound was short-lived, and I've heard it on many other BMWs. My Miata sometimes makes it after autoxing.
What does a lifter do? And why do they tick after spirited driving?
Rob
Low oil? It's odd that it would go away without adding any though
HLAs in the Bimmer?
I've heard the same complaint with another local M3 owner (older). Apparently they oil starve in hard cornering, causing the lifters to "Bleed down" from lack of pressure.
I have lifter tick on the Swift if it sits for more than a couple weeks. Usually goes away once it;s warm, but these HLA's have 202k miles on them. 202K HARD miles in the 6-7.5k rpm range. I expect a little wear.
1: The lifter stores oil inside of it when not running, if the oil "bleeds down" the internal compressible cavity will collapse making an audible clatter.
2: When your oil gets overheated the fluid loses some of its lubricity and thins out. When the oil thins too much the lifter will collapse a small amount again making a clatter.
I would suggest you start with a higher base weighted and warm operating weighted oil. If you are using 5w20 look into a 10w30. If you are using 5w30 use a 10w40. 10w30 try a 15w40.
See what happens and get back to us.
How about some sort of clean out oil to remove gunk build up which might be limiting flow into the lifter?
I secont the higher viscosity oil. If it goes away when warm I would say there is not an inhibition in the flow. De-gunking may cause more problems than solving. Most oils are a detergent oil and will remove any carp in due time.
What causes lifter tick? In this case, BMW.
Most folks autocross with an extra quart of oil in the sump and it takes care of most of it.
Gimp wrote: What causes lifter tick? In this case, BMW. Most folks autocross with an extra quart of oil in the sump and it takes care of most of it.
An extra quart 
-- I was surprised at how much oil it takes to begin with.
:) That's why those motors last so long. :)
I had good luck with Rotella T synthetic 5W40, for what it's worth. Alternatively, the Mobil One heavy diesel oil (also 5W40) worked great too. The motor "seemed" to tick less with relatively fresh oil, 5W40.
Of course, you might be driving it faster than I did: 2nd in class! Congrats!
How did it feel on the course?
I know it's OT, but since I'm here: we got the C4 on the road to day. Tq. I was mildly underwhelmed (perhaps because it's so linear) until I realized how easy it was to step the rear out. ;)
Regards, Nathan
Wouldn't be too worried if it ticks when you restart it. The oil is hot and thin, and the valve spring pressure will bleed it out of the lifters on the open valves more easily than when its cold. If its ticking when you come in after a run, I'd be looking into why the oil is aerating.
German cars like to tick a bit, just to remind you whos boss.
porksboy wrote: Most oils are a detergent oil and will remove any carp in due time.
If there's a carp in your crankcase, you have bigger problems than a ticky lifter.
The common advise to overfill the crank case on the M3s has a dark side... (IMO) It does keep the sump wet when the the oil goes slinging up the side of the block in long sweepers with sticky tires... It also dunks the crank lobes in a big wave of oil under braking (or in swapped E30s, under accel)... which robs power and aerates the oil by having the crank thrashing around in a big puddle.
On a road course this is an issue but there are longer transitions to allow the crank wipes to do their job. On short, technical tracks like Jefferson my car used to sound like a sewing machine. At auto-x I'd imagine by the end of the run the oil looks like foam. I don't think at an auto-x there are sustained high G turns to warrant the overfill and I think you will get the tick anyway because of all the air in the oil.
I made some pan baffles and better crank wipes over the winter - I'll be thrashing it around Jefferson for 2 days this weekend and I plan to just fill the crankcase to the right level. I'll report in on Tuesday. I suspect baffles + 20w50 will take care of it w/o the bubbles and the power loss.
Other folks have already beaten me to the punch, so I'll just try to sum it up simply.
Older cars: bad mechanical valve adjustment. Newer cars: oil starvation in the hydraulic lifter.
njansenv wrote: :) That's why those motors last so long. :) I had good luck with Rotella T synthetic 5W40, for what it's worth. Alternatively, the Mobil One heavy diesel oil (also 5W40) worked great too. The motor "seemed" to tick less with relatively fresh oil, 5W40. Of course, you might be driving it faster than I did: 2nd in class! Congrats! How did it feel on the course? I know it's OT, but since I'm here: we got the C4 on the road to day. Tq. I was mildly underwhelmed (perhaps because it's so linear) until I realized how easy it was to step the rear out. ;) Regards, Nathan
I'm glad the car is back on the road. Any time I drove it, the first thing I did was shut off the traction control. Much more fun that way. I always had a hard time resisiting "winding" it out -- it really doesn't like to rev like the BMW or the MIata.
The M3 was fantastic on the autox -- lots of body roll, but tons of stick and lots of power. I had a blast.
Rob
What does the lifter lift?
I'm assuming that the BMW lifter is a bucket style which rides directly on the cam.
The lifter rides between the camshaft lobe, and the valve. On solid lifter designs, there is a gap, or lash between the cam, and lifter, or lifter, and valve stem. It's usually very small, in the .010" range (10 thousands of an inch). In a hydraulic system (hydraulic lifter), the lifter has a little piston inside that is actuated by hydraulic pressure (the engine's oil pressure), which takes up this gap, or lash. A check valve inside the lifter maintains the pistons position, but sometimes some pressure will bleed out, and you hear the lifter tick you are hearing.
This is a common OHC hydraulic lifter setup, hotlinked for your enjoyment.
My car ticks like a time bomb after an auto-x run. I've been given the 'overfill the oil' advice, but some of the other E36 M3 guys have told me that I need to get my VANOS system serviced. Anyone have any insight into that?
nderwater wrote: My car ticks like a time bomb after an auto-x run. I've been given the 'overfill the oil' advice, but some of the other E36 M3 guys have told me that I need to get my VANOS system serviced. Anyone have any insight into that?
Vanos is a clunk that sounds like a bearing, not a tick. It also rarely fails - they are just noisy.
Thined out oil from heat is the cause on start up tick as others have said.
But to those with other ishues i'll say this. Over filling is a crutch! Adress and fix the problem!!. Over filling can cause loads more problems as if pumps air in to the oil when the crank hits the oil. This can cause the pump to cavate as the bubbles and foam crush inside the pump causing shock waves. Baffle your oil pan if its not allready, if you can't due to rules then add an acumulator or "ACCUSUMP" so you never starve the motor for oil.
44
Amsoil will cure the problem
I don't buy that a bit of overfilling causes aeration. The inside of the block is a crazy whirling hurricane of oil and an extra quart will only barely raise your oil level. Foaming is really a problem when people use diesel oils because their additive package is low on anti-foam. Diesel oils don't need as much anti-foam as "mixed fleet" and oils designed for gasoline engines because diesel engines operate at lower rpm's.
Diesel oils used to be popular because they were slower to remove anti-wear additives like ZDDP from their additive packages. There were more diesel oils with good anti-wear additive packages then gas fleet oils. But that's not as true as it used to be anymore. The latest diesel oil cert, "CJ" requires reduced ZDDP.
I don't know if BMW's suffer the same as Miatas, but my Miata ticked heavily. In fact it got to the point that I was afraid I was damaging something in the valvetrain. I removed the lifters, disassembled and cleaned them. I found most of my lifters actually locked solid. Once reassembled, pre-filling with oil, the tick was gone.
My Audi GT suffered from noisy lifters. Every time I did a track session, they rattled like they were trying to pulverize the cam lobes. I always used 20-50 Castrol. It would usually last about 2000 miles before regular lifter tick would begin.
So of course when I built the new engine, I installed new lifters.
Well, that was a waste of money. Did the same thing. Oh, and synthetic only gained me another 500 miles before lifter tick, so that was a waste of money too.
The solution to lifter tick was to sell the Audi and buy a car with mechanical lifters.
but you miss the CGT....
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