How can I convert my Camaro to EV without any of my money ending up in Elon Musk's disgusting hands?
How can I convert my Camaro to EV without any of my money ending up in Elon Musk's disgusting hands?
Batteries are the Big Question, or at least the Expensive Question.
What are realistic sources for batteries, assuming you really want to spend as much under $10k as possible for 'em (possibilities?: modules made for conversions by EV specialty suppliers; used OEM modules; DIY using individual cells; is buying direct from China somehow NOT a really risky and bad idea)?
What’s the best "value" for batteries (present state, near future state; yeah, depends on what battery specs ya need)?
What batteries are semi-futureproof to design a conversion around while putting off buying actual batteries for a year or two?
Leaf batteries were the go-to at one point for not-all-out-performance applications (relatively common, relatively easy to repackage) but is that still true at all?
Is there going to be a flood of probably-perfectly-safe ex-Bolt batteries? (Nope.)
What is involved with upgrading or retrofiting the battery in an older OEM EV (e.g. pre-2013 Leaf, or the $5k Smart ED on autotempest which "NEEDS BATTERY WORK!”)? Can I take a Leaf, remove the original battery and cut out the floor, and then weld in a box to hold Tesla battery modules? Obviously I don't care about the interior of the car or being able to carry more than 1 passenger.
A basic list of component's and their function and brands and options for them. What to look for in each and what to stay away from and why.
Batteries: modular to fit in variable and/or multiple locations within a vehicle.
Accessories: converting all of the systems normally powered by the ICE to pure electric systems.
To me, there is a big difference between the engineering task of making a car go via an EV conversion and the tasks involved in making it go as well as making it into a useable, every day vehicle.
frenchyd said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
You do realize it's already done. On UTube there is a 1947? Jaguar sedan. With Tesla running gear.
Frenchy, "you do realize..." is an insulting way to present information. Catching flies with vinegar, and all that. What's funny about it in this case is that the information you presented has nothing to do with the question. You do realize that an NA is a first-generation Miata.
Javelin said:Am I going to get hassled for charging at public charger with my Tesla-swapped 68 Charger (since it's clearly not electric by looks)? How do I denote that I am in fact, now an EV?
dude get out of my brain! I've been stewing on reskinning a Model S with a 69 Charger body for a while now.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
My bad, I was responding to SV reX . Just above.
I do apologize if my tone is offensive. I just wanted to be helpful. Framing it in the form of a question rather than a statement.
If you knew me better you'd know that I try very hard to be a nice guy and not offend others.
I had mentioned this earlier to Kieth just to inform him of the use of Tesla parts.
But I believe if you reread Kieth's opening statement he in no way limited the discussion to Miata's.
Battery heating and cooling, and the temperature requirements of various battery chemistries.
What condition would junkyard battery packs likely be in? Still have most of their service life? Not as good as new but still usable? Or are you likely to be buying the reason the car got sent to the junkyard? And is there a good way to test them before buying?
In reply to frenchyd :
Fair enough. I'm also trying to be helpful. :-)
Let's suppose I wanted to win drag week or whatever. I want to take a Tesla battery pack and double the number of motors and make myself a gearbox, then I just want the speed control to be an on/off switch. How can I do this without welding things accidently?
I've done a lot of self-learning on motor/controller/battery/BMS stuff already, so my questions are more about gearing:
- Thoughts on choosing a gear ratio, top speed/acceleration tradeoffs?
- Sources for simple 1-speed gearboxes for getting the drive ratio you want?
- When to consider a (multi-speed) gearbox - top speed/acceleration improvements vs. weight increase and possible traction loss of using a diff instead of individual wheel-motors?
I think an important topic (sorry if it has been mentioned) is safety.
Car guys are pretty comfortable with the safety of working with gasoline. But propulsion batteries are a whole different class.
In general, what safety gear do you need, and are there any standard procedures for connecting or disconnecting or protecting the terminals of a mega batt?
I too have questions about things like battery cooling/heating. Particularly if the OEM battery pack has to be split up or reconfigured to fit the new chassis.
If the battery is split, how does that impact % that can be used, charging/discharging rates, etc.
I'd also like to see or hear some ideas about how HVAC should be approached if there's no ICE putting off tons of helpful but inefficient waste heat.
Should we be designing these systems with something like Tesla's First Responder Loop? What's the best way to do that?
To avoid tons of considerations about physical battery fitment,cooling, crash protection,etc as well as software stuff like % usable, charging rates, etc should we all just be dropping old bodies onto new EV skateboards instead of trying to fit EV stuff into old chassis?
Has AC won? Are old DC forklift motors too archaic now? I'm thinking in terms of hanging a forklift motor on the front of a stock manual trans but it seems as if motor/gearbox/suspension cradles are the easiest thing to do nowadays? It doesn't seem like it's even worth it for a DIY'er.
I guess barring that, my interest lies in how modular they can be like was previously mentioned. Battery from this, motor from that, controller from something else?
This is great stuff. Honestly, we could use a forum section for EVs because they're so different and because not everyone wants to be inundated with electron talk - some of us are still grouchy about fuel injection :)
Given that this is a 30-50 minute video (I do tend to bang on), it'll probably be more on the overall road map and less on the "use an inverter from this car and attach it to these batteries". But we definitely should be pooling our knowledge and learning on this stuff.
In reply to iansane :
Nearly all of our electric forklifts are AC now. Less maintenance. DC motors are great. I think I have replaced more AC motors than DC, but the factory has made the switch. Better battery life and all that. In the real world, it depends on who is using it and how it is maintained. Just my opinion.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:I think an important topic (sorry if it has been mentioned) is safety.
Car guys are pretty comfortable with the safety of working with gasoline. But propulsion batteries are a whole different class.
In general, what safety gear do you need, and are there any standard procedures for connecting or disconnecting or protecting the terminals of a mega batt?
Robbie have you watched the guy on UTube who converted a 1947? Jaguar mk 4 to EV using mostly Tesla stuff?
While I'm never going to do that the how to was very informative without too much, " this how you hold a wrench" stuff.
Keith Tanner said:This is great stuff. Honestly, we could use a forum section for EVs because they're so different and because not everyone wants to be inundated with electron talk - some of us are still grouchy about fuel injection :)
Given that this is a 30-50 minute video (I do tend to bang on), it'll probably be more on the overall road map and less on the "use an inverter from this car and attach it to these batteries". But we definitely should be pooling our knowledge and learning on this stuff.
I agree. Your site has been wonderfully informative to me and I in return have educated my wife who wants one and several others who have been badly misinformed or don't understand anything about EV's.
Oooh..
Short of welding, or making a fire, how are diagnostics different from an ICE motor?
Air, fuel, spark doesn't really apply with EVs unless something is really broken.
Example example hmm umm
Ok, I'll use your model 3. Say something happens, and the right rear motor starts binding, overheating, or free spinning.
Do you just swap the whole thing, or can the CAN/obd3/HAL system tell you something like "bad ground at terminal 3 on wheel 4" or "over voltage situation at motor 2"?
While I imagine it would be home brew software on a swap, are there diagnostic programs that would need to come from a donor or be added on to a crate purchase?
I'm interested in the hp/weight aspect. How does a 300 hp electric motor and batteries compare to a 300 hp 2JZ/manual? Is there a crossover point where one becomes heavier than another? For instance, under 100 hp you reach a point of increased weight for the electric because the hp/weight ratio of electric motors isn't linear (or something like that).
I know there are hundreds of variables. You could have a 200hp BBC that weighs 750 lbs versus a 200hp 1.8T that weighs 300 lbs, but I'd like to see some general comparisons.
Part of this is selfish as I'm planning a jet boat build on a tiny little 8' flat bottom and just curious if electric is even something I should consider, or if it will be restrictively heavy compared to scavenging the 2-stroke drive from a Wave Runner or similar. My problem is that there aren't very many engines and jets in the HP/size range that would suit, but all kinds of electrics in whatever flavor I want.
Me and electricity? We sorta get along? But not well enough to homebrew a hybrid or an EV, much as I love the idea of adding 200 hp to the nondriven wheels. The charge side especially of this sort of thing is absolutely full of touch-me-not-or-you're-deader-then-yesterday's-fried-chicken levels of amps and volts, a feller's gotta know where to quit and I start thinkin' about quitting when the volts and amps start getting measured with 3 figures.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I'm interested in the hp/weight aspect. How does a 300 hp electric motor and batteries compare to a 300 hp 2JZ/manual? Is there a crossover point where one becomes heavier than another? For instance, under 100 hp you reach a point of increased weight for the electric because the hp/weight ratio of electric motors isn't linear (or something like that).
I know there are hundreds of variables. You could have a 200hp BBC that weighs 750 lbs versus a 200hp 1.8T that weighs 300 lbs, but I'd like to see some general comparisons.
Part of this is selfish as I'm planning a jet boat build on a tiny little 8' flat bottom and just curious if electric is even something I should consider, or if it will be restrictively heavy compared to scavenging the 2-stroke drive from a Wave Runner or similar. My problem is that there aren't very many engines and jets in the HP/size range that would suit, but all kinds of electrics in whatever flavor I want.
That's a pretty difficult question, partly because you can't directly compare electric and ICE HP. I've mentioned it before, but the actual real-world performance of my M5 and the Model 3 are much further apart than their specs would indicate. The two cars weigh almost the same and have the same rated power, but they sure feel different on the road. I haven't done any roll-on testing on the interstate but even just trying to follow the Tesla around town requires conscious effort coming off intersections. I'm going to try to touch on that.
I don't know how this translates to boats, though. I suspect that it'll be hard to beat the power/weight of a little two stroke.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Problem is, not too many jet manufacturers make anything appropriate for the 20-ish hp I'm planning. It's not a performance build, I just need to plane and move faster than the current on the river, otherwise I'd cut the bottom out of a Jet Ski and graft it in the boat... but then I have 200 lbs and 75 hp which is way overkill. On the opposite end I have something like a Mokai which is sized for 6hp which isn't enough.
I get that there are too many factors, I was just hoping for a generalization... just like you can't compare your Model 3 to your M5, just like you can't compare a Chrysler to a Nissan, there are some numbers that I was thinking could be compared.
The M5 and the Model 3 should be possible to compare, that's the thing. They're really not that different in a lot of ways, not like I'm trying to compare a highly boosted small turbo to the golf cart. That makes the fact that they deploy performance so differently more obvious. EV aftermarket shops are struggling with this as well, one of the conversion shops came up with "eHP" at SEMA to try to illustrate it.
Are there small Jet Skis? They can't all be 75 hp.
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