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BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 7:59 p.m.

Well, one I know about because I've got one of them in my shop. But I'm not quite flush enough to employ an a/c 911 as a track hoonmobile.

My foot/ankle injury is causing problems again in my left foot after a day on the track with the S2k. Only car so far where that didn't happen is an NA Miata, but NA Miata + rollbar equals "no broomstick für you" because I'm just a tad too tall. And I don't seem to be able to find something with the same clutch angle and light clutch action as an NA Miata in a bigger package.

Floor hinged pedals like the ones in the 911 (and my formula car) are more comfortable for me because they don't put as much force in the back of my foot. But outside a 911, VW Beetle and various purpose built race cars plus some old Alfas that are outside the budget, I'm drawing a blank as to what fits into my budget (call it $15k) and is still trackable.

And before someone points out "just use your formula car, ya big dummy" - that's the chicken and egg problem here. I need to practise track driving a bunch more before I'd expect the local club to sign me off for Time Trials, and I can't run the FST in the groups that would allow me to practise, so I can't get signed off to be able to run it.

I guess another option is something that's not an open wheeler and is bike powered with a sequential gearbox that only requires the clutch for takeoff.

So to recap:

  • $15k budget cap
  • Floor mounted pedals or same clutch action as a Miata but bigger or dual clutch with paddles or sequential gearbox
  • Should be able to seat two people and ideally be street legal
  • Don't care about FWD/RWD/AWD at this point, I want to drive a dang car on the track without making this foot issue worse
  • Has to be able to pass SCCA tech

What should I consider (other than forgetting about track driving)?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 8:14 p.m.

I guess should've been a bit more explicit about which pedal I need to be floor mounted. That would be the clutch pedal, as the injury's in my left foot

adam525i
adam525i HalfDork
3/10/20 8:23 p.m.

BMW 2002 has floor mounted brake and clutch pedals, 15k might be the entry into a track prepped vintage race version with a cage that a tall guy would fit in, it would still be worth that when you move on from it (unless you wreck it).

I'd be looking into lightening the pedal effort in the S2000 though and seeing what you can do there. Maybe there is another Honda clutch master that could be substituted with a smaller bore and longer travel?  Could an ankle brace help?

 

Edit - Maybe a tiptronic Boxster (S) is the answer?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 8:30 p.m.
adam525i said:

BMW 2002 has floor mounted brake and clutch pedals, 15k might be the entry into a track prepped vintage race version with a cage that a tall guy would fit in, it would still be worth that when you move on from it (unless you wreck it).

Hmm. That might be something worth looking into.

I'd be looking into lightening the pedal effort in the S2000 though and seeing what you can do there. Maybe there is another Honda clutch master that could be substituted with a smaller bore and longer travel?  Could an ankle brace help?

The issue is that any "normal" clutch pedal that's hinged at the top results in a motion that ends up stretching the achilles tendon and the muscles around it when I push the pedal. It's the stretching motion that's causing the problem. The S2k actually has a pretty light clutch, it's the pedal angle when the pedal is pushed in that's the issue.

I've got various ankle support doodas but the ones I can use while driving on the track don't restrict the motion enough by the look of it, and they cause other problems.

Jah29
Jah29 New Reader
3/10/20 8:31 p.m.

J's Racing sells a modified S2000 slave cylinder.  It has a larger bore than stock to reduce pedal effort when using a heavy duty clutch.   I used one with a stock s2000 clutch in the s2000 powered Seven replica I recently sold, and I think it dropped pedal effort by about 40%.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia Dork
3/10/20 8:33 p.m.

Can you put an aftermarket  floor mounted pedal assembly in like they use on dune buggies ?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 8:34 p.m.

In reply to Jah29 :

It's not necessarily an effort issue, but might be worth looking into. Do you know if it affects pedal travel and/or if it requires a different clutch master cylinder?

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 8:40 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Possibly, but not without fab work on the floor. The floor under the pedals is sloping down and doesn't leave enough space for mounting both pedals and linkages without cutting into or otherwise manipulating the floor.

If this was a $5k car I'd go look for a race fab shop, but this S2k is just a tad too nice (and worth too much money) for me to be comfortable with this on a non-race car build.

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
3/10/20 8:45 p.m.

Are PDK Caymans down into that range get?   I bet they are getting close.  
 

SMG e46 M3s certainly are, and on track is where the SMG actually works.   
 

Both would be fun on track without stressing your left foot, and you wife would drive them if need be. 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/10/20 8:48 p.m.
Sonic said:

Are PDK Caymans down into that range get?   I bet they are getting close.  

I thought they were still low to mid twenties, but I haven't looked for a while now.
 

SMG e46 M3s certainly are, and on track is where the SMG actually works.   

This is why I like this forum, I didn't even think about SMG M3s.
 

Both would be fun on track without stressing your left foot, and you wife would drive them if need be. 

Especially if I can't get her dang Wrangler working well .

 

dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
3/10/20 8:52 p.m.

I owned an e46 M3 SMG with all the bolt ons. It was a REALLY fun car and I found the SMG to be fine. I'd definitely consider another one. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/10/20 8:57 p.m.

Possible to try a block of wood hose clamped to the clutch pedal to see if it helps the range of motion?

 

This is what I will probably have to do to the VW to make it drivable.  German drivers must have hooves for feet the way VW puts the pedals practically down at floor height.  I got the idea from a customer who had a 4-speed 2nd-gen Firebird.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 Dork
3/10/20 10:03 p.m.

Lotus Europa has floor mounted pedals, but I would not track one for rear suspension fragility! The BMW 2002 idea sound very good. Also check out the Formula Race Car Club of America, they will put a total beginner on track with your F First.

djsilver
djsilver Reader
3/10/20 10:04 p.m.

With a little ingenuity you might be able to connect a vacuum diaphragm actuator to the clutch pedal and operate it with a solenoid, with the switch mounted to the shifter....,

Cactus
Cactus Reader
3/10/20 10:44 p.m.

Anything can have Tilton or Wilwood pedals if you install them.

snailmont5oh
snailmont5oh Dork
3/10/20 11:23 p.m.

Having never driven an S2k...

How often do you need to push the clutch all the way (like, to shift)?  Is there a method of adjusting the clutch so that you don't have to push it to the floor all the time?  I had a '91 F-150 that had approximately 10" of clutch pedal travel.  It started to touch about  4" off the floor, had about 2" of travel that did stuff, and about 4" of "free play."  That meant that you only had to push it a maximum of 6" to shift. The only time you *had* to push it to the floor was to start it. 

codrus
codrus UberDork
3/10/20 11:59 p.m.
dyintorace said:

I owned an e46 M3 SMG with all the bolt ons. It was a REALLY fun car and I found the SMG to be fine. I'd definitely consider another one. 

My E46 was an SMG for a few months before it got converted to 5-speed as a part of the race car build.  It's definitely the most "manual" of all of the flappy paddle cars I've ever driven -- you really need to drive it like it's a manual, being aware of what gear it's in, lifting off the gas while shifting, etc.  While it will drive in "D", it's very herky-jerky.

The principle downside to them is that they aren't terribly reliable.

 

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
3/11/20 5:02 a.m.

In the meantime, I can't help but think seeking several sources of medical (including "alternative medicine") advice and/or intervention would be the better choice. 
 

Time and money may be better-spent figuring out the ankle condition. I obviously don't know you but I DO know you're an intelligent adult so I don't mean to sound insulting or condescending but I can't help focusing more on fixing the condition or at least making it more livable. (If I may make a suggestion: Google ART: Applied Release Technique and seek out a local practitioner).

 

***please don't take this post the wrong way!**

tr8todd
tr8todd SuperDork
3/11/20 6:35 a.m.

I have a pig cheeked 2002 that is race prepped for Vintage or EP that I'm thinking about moving on from.  Lots of spares and is equipped with some high dollar extras like close ratio 5 speed.  Its a sweet little car, but I have had it in long term storage for about 5 years.  Need to get it out of there soon, so I was thinking about getting rid of it.  If you think a 2002 is worth considering, give me a shout.  Comes with fiberglass fenders, hood, trunk.  Set of Weber 45 DCOE and a set of Dellorto 40 DHLA.  Full cage, lexan windows, Accusump, 3 limited slip rear ends, spare subframe and suspension parts, spare 5 speeds, etc.  Recently seen similar cars without the spares sell in the $25K range.  I'd let mine go for much less.  Recently picked up another TR8 racecar that I want to focus on.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/11/20 6:57 a.m.

In reply to ebonyandivory :

We're working on figuring this out - the issue is that it seems to be a combination of conditions, some of them more easily worked around, others not so much. Either way it's going to be a long slog to get back to 75-80% by the looks of it. The recovery has plateaued for a while now, but at a level where the injury isn't that much of an issue.

Well, until I take a car to the track apparently.

Cactus said:

Anything can have Tilton or Wilwood pedals if you install them.

As mentioned above, that requires more willingness to hack about the car that I possess right now. While I like it, I'm not in love with it to the extent that I'll keep it for a long time, so mods like that are not really doable.

 

In reply to snailmont5oh :

Already adjusted the pedal as high as possible so I don't have to push it all the way towards the firewall. I usually don't have to use full travel while the car is moving, but I need a bit more practise to deliberately make use of that fact.

APEowner
APEowner Dork
3/11/20 7:24 a.m.

If eliminating the need to use the clutch when shifting is enough of a mitigation then you might consider a face plated or dog ring gear box in either the s2k or whatever you replace it with.

Woody
Woody MegaDork
3/11/20 8:36 a.m.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Would adding a temporary sports racer body to your formula car allow you to get out on the track to practice? If it would, that seems like it would be the most practical and economical solution. It would also minimize your storage needs and leave an extra $14,000+ in your budget for consumables, entry fees, and post event consumables.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltimaDork
3/11/20 9:41 a.m.

Just build a pro touring muscle car with a full manual valve body automatic and a set of Hurst lightning rods.....

Now your left foot can rest easy! wink

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/11/20 9:49 a.m.

In reply to Gearheadotaku :

Ratchet shifter.  Lightning Rods look cool but they suck to use.

 

Plus you can rig solenoids so you can shift with buttons on the steering wheel.

RossD
RossD MegaDork
3/11/20 10:05 a.m.

Renault 8 has floor mounted pedals.

Otherwise the auto 8 speed ZF transmission is quite good and is in lots of fun cars. I dont know about track use, however.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

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