captainawesome
captainawesome Reader
9/17/19 5:51 p.m.

So the FRS I bought happened to have EBC Yellowstuff pads. After a few thousand street miles, 80 autocross runs, and one track day, I am pretty fond of the street/track nature of them. When the time came to buy a new set, they were the only ones I felt the need to purchase. Until I looked at the bedding in procedure. At this point I'm already committed, but it does raise at least one burning question....

Why is EBC one of the only pads I've ever read or heard about that requires a bedding in procedure that could potentially span 1000 plus miles? See procedure below.

I get the logic of pad surface being at full potential, but considering every other pad on the block just requires a few heat cycles in varying speeds with some cool down, what gives?

 

EBC BRAKE PADS BED-IN PROCEDURE:

  • Use brakes with minimal pressure for first 100 miles from urban speeds of 30-50 mph only. Brakes will feel very sharp and responsive but this is ONLY the brake in coating working which gives an abnormally high friction level feeling.
  • Drive a further 250 miles using slightly increased brake pressure and load UNLESS in an emergency in which case apply brake as hard as required.
  • Clean wheels off as there will be residue from the brake-in coating after bed in.
  • Look for a full width contact across the pad depth( rotor braking band) from the outer edge of the disc to the inner and if not achieved allow a further 100-200 miles steady driving. You will see a blue-ish band evidencing contact across the rotor face. Until this band goes from the outer to the inner edges of the brake disc/rotor the pads have NOT yet fully seated. When installing new rotors, reduced width banding is quite possible due to various tolerances and slight misalignments in the vehicle chassis and is NOT a warranty defect or a reason to remove and inspect brakes. Many European cars have SINGLE PISTON CALIPERS and these tend to “Flair” open and cause the contact band described above only to be seen at the outer edge of the disc/rotor and work its way inwards taking up to 1000 miles to do so.
  • After full width contact band is attained make a further 10 stops from 60 mph to 10 mph in succession with a deliberate attempt to get the brakes hot. Some smells may occur even slight smoke during this final heat up stage of the pads in early life. Then coast the vehicle for a mile to allow discs to cool. Do not pull up and park vehicle with brake excessively hot. You must try to get the discs down to below 60-80 degrees C temperature before parking the vehicle.
  • When parked let brakes cool to a final cool-to-touch point. Before touching discs splash a few tiny drops of water onto the disc to asses its temperature to avoid burning fingers. If the water spots cause a “hiss” you have parked up too soon and should go out and drive slowly allowing the brakes to cool further.

NEW DISCS TAKE LONGER TO BED IN

Fully bedding new pads to decent condition worn discs/rotors may take only 200-300 miles but when new discs are fitted at the same time bed in times to achieve outer to inner edge contact ( full width blue-grey contact band as mentioned under point 4 above ) can be as long as 800-1000 miles due to extra components needed to be aligned to the vehicle. To Short cut this you can ( and EBC recommend should) have EVEN NEW DISCS Pro Cut Lathe aligned to your vehicle. This process removes only microns of new disc material and shortens bed in time by 75% of the time it COULD take giving you better brakes faster and avoiding hot spotting and pad glazing.

BADLY WORN DISCS/ROTORS CAN TAKE AN AGE TO BED IN

Discs/Rotors with more than 0.5 mm ( 0.020 inches) of lip at the outer edge or hollow in the centre of the braking area can take up to 2000 miles to bed in and will for sure cause Noise, brake fade,vibration and pad burning. Bad rotors can RUIN your pads. 95% of brake fade and noise complaints come from poor disc/rotor condition where the pads touch only at the outer and inner edges and have no chance to deliver an effective brake.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/17/19 6:11 p.m.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
9/17/19 6:21 p.m.

I've had street pads/rotors take a thousand miles to bed in, too.

 

It's interesting that this is not the first time I've heard that you get best results from installing new pads at a different time than new rotors, so that you aren't trying to bed in the pad at the same time you are trying to deposit a good even layer of pad material on the rotor.  It's rare to have used rotors that are flat enough to take new pads, though, they're usually tapered thinner at the outer diameter and the cross section is curved besides, if not wavy.

slowbird
slowbird HalfDork
9/17/19 6:24 p.m.

1000 miles?  that's dang near long as a nascar race! shoot, that's two nascar races! dang ol' british brakes don't bed in like a good old fashiond nascar brakes. just go out there, make a real fast lap around daytona, stomp on the brakes as you come inta' the pits...them brakes is bedded good!

 

Real talk, I bet that some of that is them covering their butts to reduce complaints, and some is specific to certain cars that are particularly prone to issues.

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
9/17/19 7:04 p.m.

It bothers me that they keep saying ‘brake in’ when they mean ‘break in’. You would think they would know the difference. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
9/17/19 7:32 p.m.

Ah, come on, give em a brake, they are just trying to give you the best breaking experience.

Nugi
Nugi Reader
9/17/19 8:57 p.m.

I always just did a half dozen or so 65-10mph threshold brakes or until it just starts to fade. Drive another 10min or so gently to cool em down. Then I drive a 100 miles or so normal, bleed the brakes, and its good to go. I like burnishing old rotors with a ss wire wheel when changing compounds, but others disagree. I have not gotten warped/uneven deposit rotors with this procedure. Ymmv.

boxedfox
boxedfox Reader
9/17/19 9:39 p.m.

1000 miles sounds like a lot but that's about what it takes to fully bed in a set of street pads (especially the fleet / heavy duty pads that some of us like to use on our tow rigs). It's only race and track pads that can bed in through a dozen or so hard stops.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/18/19 7:14 a.m.

And people complain about the CarboTech and G-Loc bed-in procedures, I've never seen such a long complicated bed-in procedure!

But I'm with Nugi, 70-10 stops repeatedly until the brakes sink and start to fade, let cool. Then hammer on them.

captainawesome
captainawesome Reader
9/18/19 7:38 a.m.

I'm about 100 miles in. The blue-ish band is only present on the inner rotor, which is about 1/2 of the surface area. Going to give it some more easy miles today and tomorrow to see if the band enlarges any. Friday I will do the 60-10 stops no matter what. I'll at least be able to say I tried their method, it just boggles my mind.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
9/18/19 2:38 p.m.

Protip: These get used on dedicated track cars that only get a few laps of brake bedding, it doesn't seem to cause a problem wink

My first set of EBC Yellows with fresh rotors took a while to bed in, the second set didn't need anything special. I did two street drives for break-in and then hit the track, no problems so far.

_
_ HalfDork
9/18/19 5:15 p.m.

My red stuffs were three 70-10 stops. Done. Drive kindly the first 100mi.

My stoptechs were the full process described above. They were still not bedded in after 500 miles. I had to go out and do some pretty crazy hundred mile an hour to 10 mile an hour stops, about 10 in a row. Now they are great, I can stop on a dime and don’t even need him warm yet

EBC_BRAKES
EBC_BRAKES None
8/5/21 1:58 p.m.

Hello All,

 

This is EBC brakes, an authorised commercial vendor and forum member, and we wish to update the forum withy the latest Bedding in instructions from EBC.

 

Yellow has been a favourite at the tracks for quite a while but the compound has been upgraded in recently to remove COPPER which is about to be banned due to environmental concerns.

 

The new yellowstuff whilst very workable if you have the time for bedding in ( Break in) remains capable of track use…the only question is whether you can spare that break in time ….NOW THE GOOD NEWS…The new EBC Bluestuff has been massively improved in break in time and is a true street pad that can be installed at the track and after a couple of laps its up and ready to go. Please read the instructions below .

 

Lot to read, sorry but this covers all our compounds

 

Thanks to all

 

Bedding in procedures for EBC Pad compounds In Racing

Although EBC scorch all its compounds pads during production to remove most of the volatiles, the following procedure should be performed on the vehicle to fully bed-in your new pads. The aim is to progressively generate considerable brake temperature, burning off any lingering volatiles and depositing an even transfer layer onto the brake discs. This process ensures the pads will not fade the next time they ‘see’ a high temperature, whilst also ensuring wear life, noise, and overall performance is optimised.

It is normal for the brakes to fade and produce maybe even some odours and light smoke during this procedure.

Perform any street/highway routine on a quiet, safe stretch of road devoid of traffic lights. It is imperative you do not come to a complete stop whilst the brakes are hot.

For performance road driving, perform routine FADE 1 below. If the vehicle is to be driven on the track, an additional optional procedure, FADE 2 or maybe even FADE 3, should be performed to condition the brakes for track use

 

EBC Yellowstuff – R90 street legal

 

Fast Street use Pre Bed – drive 50 to 100 miles on Public road/highway normal driving to allow the pads to mate up to the disc and establish full contact followed by 8 stops from 80 mph to 30 mph at 300 yard intervals and then coasting allowing the brakes to cool. Repeat the 8 stops on a second drive if pads do not exhibit full potential or pedal feels”Long”

 

If using Yellowstuff on the track ….

 

FADE 1 – After the basic street pre bed…..Perform 10 medium pressure snubs from 80-20mph leaving 300 meters between each snub (approx 0.4g decel)

 

Allow pads to cool for 15 minutes minimum after coasting to the pits

 

FADE 2 – Perform 6 high-pressure snubs from 80-20mph with a maximum acceleration between consecutive snubs. (approx 0.8g decel, or 80% of an emergency stop)

 

FADE 3– Perform 10 high-pressure snubs from 90-30mph with a maximum acceleration between consecutive snubs. Or if on track, do 3 laps at 80% attack followed by 1 cooldown lap then return to the pits.

 

· Allow the brakes to fully cool for a minimum of 1 hour before the race session.

 

EBC Bluestuff  (R90 street legal) 

 

If possible perform the Street Pre Bed routine as above followed by Fade 1 at the race track.

 

Latest Bluestuff DM3362 should only take Fade 1 and a 15 minute cooling time to be ready to race.

 

Fade 2 & 3 should not be necessary unless poor disc condition has prevented proper seating but if you have time DO perform fade 2.

 

EBC RP-X and RP-1 race compounds

 

No Street Pre Bed needed or legally allowed, these are pure race track compounds

 

A couple of laps gentle braking followed by Fade 3 as above should be all that is needed

 

EBC sintered SR11 and 21   

 

(compounds due for release Autumn 2021)

 

These are a new generation of Sintered pads and do not require any chemical bedding. Pads merely need mating to the disc/rotor which again depends on rotor/disc condition but if flat or new this should take 3-5 snubs as mentioned in Fade 3 above – at the track.

 

No Street Pre Bed needed or legally allowed, these are pure race track compounds

 

Check your Brake fluid and Caliper condition

Surprisingly many drivers don’t pay enough attention to fluid. A high temp fluid such as EBC BF-307 which is an extremely pure glycol fluid and has a dry (new) boiling point of 307C ( 580F ) should be used, change fluids regularly in track use to maintain firm brake pedal, avoid vapor lock and deliver a linear brake response. Fluids should be changed every two years for normal street use and every 2-3 track events for track-day and every event for full hard race use.

 

EBC strongly recommends the use of Disc heat paints to monitor disc temperature and caliper heat strips in racing to check the caliper is not overheating. If calipers are dragging, temperatures can rise above the seal upper limits and damage seals. Sliding single piston calipers should always be serviced ready for track driving as often sticking or seized calipers cause blame to be placed on the pad compound in error.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
8/5/21 4:44 p.m.

Yeah.... I just bedded the Porterfields and the Hawks the same. 30-5, 40-5, 50-5, 60-5, cool down lap "around the block", then two hard 80-5's and a final cool down. They seem to like that really well. I've never had an EBC I liked the feel of (no offense EBC, I'm an oddball in general). Doesn't help they don't offer much for my stuff.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
8/5/21 5:06 p.m.

So IOW previous Yellowstuff users should consider Bluestuff pads instead? One thing I didn't like about Yellowstuff was the grabbiness and it sounds like the Bluestuff is improved there. Are the new Yellowstuff and Bluestuff pads similar in temperature/fade resistance?

EBC_BRAKES
EBC_BRAKES New Reader
8/7/21 1:33 a.m.

In reply to bobzilla :

Anything I can do to change your opinion? Why not let me know what your stuff is and I will see if I can do something for you? 

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
8/7/21 8:56 a.m.
z31maniac said:

And people complain about the CarboTech and G-Loc bed-in procedures, I've never seen such a long complicated bed-in procedure!

But I'm with Nugi, 70-10 stops repeatedly until the brakes sink and start to fade, let cool. Then hammer on them.

I paid G-Loc the extra ~$20 to do their in house "bedding in" procedure. I said something about material transfer to the rotors and they said not to worry about it, just install the pads and drive.

Sure enough... installed the pads and drove, no issues. Standard warm up lap applies, of course.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
8/7/21 11:50 a.m.

I drag the brakes while applying power. No 100 mph street driving needed. Get them really hot let cool down rinse and repeat. Much safer (you don't need to get over 30-40 mph) and faster and you can get things up to nuclear melt down temps if you want. You can also regulate the heating process bringing things up to temp slower or faster depending on what you want.  Also getting up to a high speed will have the effect of cooling the brakes more while you try to heat them up. Lastly my method results in longer pad rotor contact time. I can drag brakes for 5 minutes if I want. A series of stops will take half an hour to net you the same rotor pad contact time. 

rustomatic
rustomatic Reader
8/8/21 8:12 a.m.

This is timely and interesting.  I just got a new Baer setup for my Falcon, and the bedding-in procedure will take days, if not weeks.  I don't know how anyone does this with a track-only car . . .

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
8/8/21 11:49 a.m.

The original breaking in procedure was to ensure long street life, but as pointed out, you can certainly do it faster.

I use Red Stuff on one of my street sports cars. I like that compound quite a lot for sporting street use but had an issue (pad material coming off the backer) that ruined my rotors and EBC did the right thing and sent me new pads and rotors and explained that they had a temporary issue that was corrected.    Have to give them credit for excellent back up of their product.

I would have no hesitation in using their pads again. Not really a fan of the Yellow Stuff (at least in original composition) but then I am no longer racing so don't need them (went Porterfield R4-S on the other modern sports car). 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
8/9/21 5:11 a.m.
EBC_BRAKES said:

In reply to bobzilla :

Anything I can do to change your opinion? Why not let me know what your stuff is and I will see if I can do something for you? 

Pretty sure you don't have much for a 2013 Rio5 SX to handle One Lap. But I appreciate your concern. I'm not anti EBC by a long shot I've just had great luck and enjoyed the feel and capability of other brands.

porschenut
porschenut Reader
8/9/21 9:54 a.m.
dean1484 said:

I drag the brakes while applying power. No 100 mph street driving needed. Get them really hot let cool down rinse and repeat. Much safer (you don't need to get over 30-40 mph) and faster and you can get things up to nuclear melt down temps if you want. You can also regulate the heating process bringing things up to temp slower or faster depending on what you want.  Also getting up to a high speed will have the effect of cooling the brakes more while you try to heat them up. Lastly my method results in longer pad rotor contact time. I can drag brakes for 5 minutes if I want. A series of stops will take half an hour to net you the same rotor pad contact time. 

This is what I was told 20 years ago by a racer. Drag the brakes, drive till you can smell them, drive with no pedal pressure for  a few minutes, till the rotors cool.  I know brake technology changes but I use this on new street pads every time.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/9/21 10:12 a.m.

Basically, you want to get them up to temp and keep them there for a little while, then let them cool completely. The hornier the pad compound, the hotter they have to be.

Trying to do it long and slow always seems to end up with a glazed feeling pad to me. They don't wake up until you go through the hot bedding. And if you street drive fro a long time and they never really get hot, you may have to do it again to wake them up. 

Our Preferred Partners
dl0UwWN3sv9srD1AItdCH7PxT6S08pniSP24gwStBBNWIGs6ndvBHU4hnPRvX2ds