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Recon1342
Recon1342 Dork
1/25/22 6:04 p.m.

Yet another car meet has ended in tragedy after a young driver lost control of his Mustang and plowed into a crowd of people. 
 

Linky

I for one, am curious. Why is it always a Mustang when this happens? I genuinely would like to know if anybody has any ideas...

johndej
johndej Dork
1/25/22 6:07 p.m.

Cheap iconic short wheel base high horsepower entry level muscle car.

akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
1/25/22 6:13 p.m.

Where to start.

Affordable power = younger driver

Cool looking cheap tires = poor traction when cold

Showing off, after all these are car SHOWS

Peer pressure, everyone is doing it.

More Mustangs on the road than other brands.

Relatively cheap to add 100-150 hp on top of the 425 they come with.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
1/25/22 6:13 p.m.
johndej said:

Cheap iconic short wheel base high horsepower entry level muscle car.

I guess the more interesting question is why you don't ever hear about Camaros doing this, but maybe the answer is that Ford sells three times as many as Chevy.

 

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
1/25/22 6:21 p.m.

I was just going to comment that it is a combo of the law of averages (lots more ponies sold) and affordable hp.  They are not my cup of tea but embarrassingly good stock beasts.

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
1/25/22 6:34 p.m.

Relatively common hot rod and a critical mass of crash videos that begets more of the same to create a stereotype.

 

You can find the same style videos for Ferrari, not that they are crashed any more than most cars, but rather because they get the views.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
1/25/22 6:39 p.m.

More disturbingly reported on the same site today is that 2 of the "street racers" from one of those Discovery shows crashed into each other. That's not that uncommon (though it was husband and wife), the scary part is that one of them t-boned a production van!

https://www.motorious.com/articles/news/street-outlaws-stars-hurt/

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
1/25/22 6:53 p.m.

Relatively common hot rod and a critical mass of crash videos that begets more of the same to create a stereotype.

 

You can find the same style videos for Ferrari, not that they are crashed any more than most cars, but rather because they get the views.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
1/25/22 6:56 p.m.
NOHOME said:

Relatively common hot rod and a critical mass of crash videos that begets more of the same to create a stereotype.

You can find the same style videos for Ferrari, not that they are crashed any more than most cars, but rather because they get the views.

Because Mopar owners know that their muscle cars are pigs so they don't even try?

Okay, that's kinda mean. But if the stereotype is correct (I'm not convinced it's that statistically valid) about Mustangs, I'd say that it's because they're kinda the Miata of musclecars. Cheap, abundant, and while not as well-mannered as the Answer, just good enough to get your testosterone to overwhelm your frontal cortex.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
1/25/22 6:57 p.m.

I was thinking law of averages as well

At autocross on Sunday we had a slew of Mustangs in CAM, all without incident. All of them are experienced 

Then on the drive home dork in a Mustang cutting in and out of traffic; the drivers throttle control was pure crap abruptly on and off the throttle.

It's probably the same way 600cc sport bikes get crashed; cheap speed with with relatively inexperienced rider. 

Berck
Berck Reader
1/25/22 7:09 p.m.
Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa PowerDork
1/25/22 7:09 p.m.

Tony Angelo went into it on one of the Roadkill shows.  They did the Watts linkage (I think) on the New Edge Mustang with the Coyote swap.

The 4-bar linkage is designed in such a way that it binds at a particular point in the suspension travel, when that happens you get pretty bad snap oversteer.  At that point bad things happen and puppies die.

stuart in mn
stuart in mn MegaDork
1/25/22 7:22 p.m.
Javelin said:

More disturbingly reported on the same site today is that 2 of the "street racers" from one of those Discovery shows crashed into each other. That's not that uncommon (though it was husband and wife), the scary part is that one of them t-boned a production van!

https://www.motorious.com/articles/news/street-outlaws-stars-hurt/

I tried watching that show once, I got as far as the lead character being named "JJ Da Boss" and I changed the channel.

STM317
STM317 UberDork
1/25/22 7:31 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:

Tony Angelo went into it on one of the Roadkill shows.  They did the Watts linkage (I think) on the New Edge Mustang with the Coyote swap.

The 4-bar linkage is designed in such a way that it binds at a particular point in the suspension travel, when that happens you get pretty bad snap oversteer.  At that point bad things happen and puppies die.

The car in this incident was new enough to have IRS.

The old 4 link cars really didn't make much power without lots of mods. Now, You've got entry level Mustangs making more HP/tq than the V8 cars did 15 years ago.

It just comes down to cheap power and lack of skill if you ask me. 

Recon1342
Recon1342 Dork
1/25/22 7:52 p.m.

I kinda figured the same as what you guys have come up with. Frustrating, because it makes the whole car culture look bad...

 

I wonder how many of these kids have never driven a RWD car before they climb into a 'stang...

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/25/22 7:55 p.m.

Because Altima owners don't go to car shows. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/25/22 8:05 p.m.

It isn't just burnouts.  Last year I had someone in a stopped Mustang try to get out of the way of a school bus trying to turn onto our road by putting it in Reverse and accelerating briskly without bothering to check mirrors.

Fortunately I was able to back up quickly enough, and they stopped before they pushed me into the car behind ME that had been coming up the hill.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
1/25/22 8:57 p.m.
Berck said:

It seems like there are almost as many Chargers in these incidents?

https://www.thedrive.com/news/40138/dont-be-like-this-dodge-challenger-hellcat-driver-who-flipped-a-truck-while-leaving-cars-and-coffee

https://carbuzz.com/news/dodge-charger-dangerously-barrels-into-crowd-at-texas-car-meet

I was going to say, at least in the Detroit area, whenever I see idiotic automotive behavior on the news, it's a Charger or Challenger.

akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
1/25/22 9:05 p.m.

I have owned and driven four link, panhard bar and IRS Mustangs they all have different reasons for breaking traction.  All can be overcome with driver skill.

11GTCS
11GTCS Dork
1/26/22 8:07 a.m.
Recon1342 said:

I wonder how many of these kids have never driven a RWD car before they climb into a 'stang...

Not to mention (in the case of the one in the link) one with over 400 HP to the wheels and limited slip.   

I've driven an '86 Fox body GT (BIL's) and my '11.  In my experience the Fox body is way more directionally unstable under hard acceleration, the back will come out very quickly with any amount of wheel spin.  Not unexpected in a relatively light car for the 200 ish HP and front weight biased.   The '11 has the panhard rod mentioned above and is pretty benign from my experience but I'm not out hooning it either.   I agree that most current drivers have the majority of their experience in FWD / AWD platforms.  That would prevent them from getting the seat of the pants "and we're sliding" sense that learning on RWD seems to have taught me and most here.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
1/26/22 8:42 a.m.
akylekoz said:

I have owned and driven four link, panhard bar and IRS Mustangs they all have different reasons for breaking traction.  All can be overcome with driver skill.

Last line is the key.  Very few people on public roads have any sort of training beyond 2 weeks of driver's ed when they're 15.  They're not us, out there racing and doing hpde and getting competition licenses.  When any dipE36 M3 with money or a credit line can walk into a dealership and buy a 700hp missile with no proof of ability to handle it, E36 M3 happens

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/26/22 11:00 a.m.

This driver could achieve this outcome in any number of cars.  Like Forest Gump's mama always said, "stupid is as stupid does."  Blaming the car is a lot like blaming the gun and not Alec Baldwin.  

 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) Dork
1/26/22 11:11 a.m.

I guess my insurance just went up.

Saron81
Saron81 Dork
1/26/22 11:18 a.m.

I guess the answer is accessible high hp, and inexperienced drivers. It's always lots of wheel speed, and lots of over corrections. 

akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
1/26/22 11:34 a.m.

One other thought, my pushrod 5.0 had no top end but could easily break traction in a very controlled way.  My current 4.6 three valve, with moderate cams and a high rpm intake comes on much later.  So once tires break traction the revs come on quick and keep climbing, in less controllable fashion.  Harder to rip them loose but once they do, hold on.

Combine those two with a supercharged model or addition of and E36 M3 can happen real quick.  In the case of my buddys 900 hp GT500 it can happen up to three digit speeds.

Speaking of HP and my buddy, like a lot of people it is a dyno competition.  No intention of ever needing or properly using that kind of HP.  I'll admit that it is fun and kind of addicting.  If only he would let me take it to a track.  His is a GT500 with SVT and Track pack with optional 3:55 gears and nothing else.  This combo doesn't even show on a build sheet.

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