WWGRMD - Me-Otter PDX dliemma

The lesson from this weekend's PDX are that I either discovered a hitherto unknown helping of talent or the list of parts that urgently need attention has grown considerably. I suspect the latter, even though it was a good feeling when the instructor told me that it was the car holding me back and not the other way around.

Either way, it looks like the minimum shopping list at the moment is:

• I need new shocks. The used Mazdaspeed suspension on the car threw the towel after two PDXs so at the very minimum I probably have to bolt on a set of yellow Konis (my preferred shock). Ideally I'd probably want some coilovers instead but the ones I can afford right now are on back order.
• Wheels and sticky tires, well, there is a surprise there. I knew the All Seasons wouldn't get me very far.
• Looks like I need to address some cooling issues - it didn't overheat but even with the usual water wetter + distilled water it ran rather hot. Not really a surprise given that the track is out in the desert. At the very minimum I'm probably looking at one of the FM fan shrouds here, but I might have to get a new radiator as well.
• The alternator didn't like the under hood heat, so that probably wants replacing. Fortunately it was working well enough to get me home after AAA Racing Services jump started the car but it seemed to have called it at day after the last session. Didn't help that I didn't notice that it wasn't charging when driving back to the hotel...

Working on the assumption that life it too short to cheap out on everything, I put together a couple of parts to address the above and ended up with $2k-$3k (depending on wheel choice and tire choice, but nothing extravagant unless you call RPF-1s extravagant) that I would have to throw at the car before the next PDX. On top of that, I still need a roll bar, even if it's just for my own peace of mind and I still need to fix up some of the PO's "repairs" (which means I also need at least a used bumper cover).

So in total I'm probably looking at least $2.5k before the next PDX. Given how much I can get for the Miata (probably around $3.5k, plus another $700-800 for the slightly ratty hardtop), I can probably buy a prepped car for slightly less or the same money. Some of these cars would need trailering which might not be what I want right now, but a quick perusal of various classified sites brought up an ITC 510 (obviously would need need towing to the track) w/ spare parts and a BMW 328i with the sort of suspension mods I'd want, both for less than the cost of the total Miata package. There's also an FB built for Auto-X available around here, too.

So, what would GRM do? Start over or bite the bullet and throw the parts at the Miata?

PS: PDXs out here rock. People bring a cool selection of cars to the PDX/time trials out here, this time we had a couple of nicely modded 911s and a genuine Group 44 E-Type, plus some other drool-worthy hardware. Last time, someone showed up with a Daytona prototype...

What is a PDX (makes me think of portland international airport)

SCCA's version of HPDE.

I never had an overheating issue with either of my Miatas, but one time when replacing hoses, I found that the aluminum elbow down by the lower drivers side of the radiator was full of corrosion and probably offering some restriction. I ran a gutted thermostat for a while, but the car never even got up to operating temperature.

The only other advice that I can offer to you is that I thought Spec Miata shocks and springs were too stiff. People only use them because they're required to by the rules.

If I were building another track car (after two Miatas), I'd probably do a BMW, mainly because I fit a little better and I'd rather have a six cylinder.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

Ah thanks, I was guessing something like "performance driving experience"

Woody wrote: I never had an overheating issue with either of my Miatas, but one time when replacing hoses, I found that the aluminum elbow down by the lower drivers side of the radiator was full of corrosion and probably offering some restriction. I ran a gutted thermostat for a while, but the car never even got up to operating temperature.

I should have mentioned that the car has mostly new hoses, a new OEM thermostat and I have replaced the lower radiator hose (with the "elbow") with the one piece FM hose. Radiator is a couple of years and probably 5k miles old, but it's just a stock replacement radiator. All this certainly did make a difference to the engine temperatures but it still seems to have issues dumping heat in the bone-dry 90-ish heat we had out here.

What of course doesn't help is that I still have the a/c on the car but that's also more or less a necessity for something driven in summer. And no, I didn't have the air on while on the track...

Woody wrote: The only other advice that I can offer to you is that I thought Spec Miata shocks and springs were too stiff. People only use them because they're required to by the rules.

Yeah, I wasn't planning to use those, given that the Miata doubles as a part-time DD. The plan was to either use yellow Konis or get some VMaxx coilovers but the FM site suggests that those won't be back in stock for a while.

Woody wrote: If I were building another track car (after two Miatas), I'd probably do a BMW, mainly because I fit a little better and I'd rather have a six cylinder.

Well, I was thinking either BMW (E30 or E36 unless I come across a killer deal for a 2002), a 924S/944 or, well, I dunno. The good thing about Miatas is that I have had a few so I generally know my way around them but something just a little bigger and more practical would be a Good Thing.

Actually I have been thinking about getting a C4 coupe, but that bumps the cost of the consumables up to something scary. Plus I would prefer a slower car, at least for the moment.

BoxheadTim wrote: Well, I was thinking either BMW (E30 or E36 unless I come across a killer deal for a 2002), a 924S/944 or, well, I dunno. The good thing about Miatas is that I have had a few so I generally know my way around them but something just a little bigger and more practical would be a Good Thing.

Wanna trade? My E30 is pretty much ready to go for track work. I still even have the track pads Sonic gave me with the car. I'd like a fairly stock Miata to run in E-Stock. Especially if it has a hard top and working a/c to serve as a back-up DD.

Ian F wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: Well, I was thinking either BMW (E30 or E36 unless I come across a killer deal for a 2002), a 924S/944 or, well, I dunno. The good thing about Miatas is that I have had a few so I generally know my way around them but something just a little bigger and more practical would be a Good Thing.

Wanna trade? My E30 is pretty much ready to go for track work. I still even have the track pads Sonic gave me with the car. I'd like a fairly stock Miata to run in E-Stock. Especially if it has a hard top and working a/c to serve as a back-up DD.

Does your E30 still work well enough as a DD? What's it like rust-wise?

I might be interested, even though we'd have to figure out the shipping side of things. Hit me up with a PM...

I would think that if there is any place to find a rust free E30, it would be where you are.

In reply to Woody:

Actually it seems to be further south - out here there are only a few, there are a few more in the Bay Area and a lot more down LA way. I guess worst case that's where I'd be able to pick up one with nicely burnt paint .

Personally I'd keep the Miata, but it depends a lot on what you enjoy driving.

If you still have the factory radiator, then I'd replace that before I bought a fan shroud. IIRC, the automatic radiators are dual-core and work reasonably well as a budget upgrade. I'd also look into a coolant reroute, and make sure you have the bellypan and all of the factory ducting installed.

It actually has an OEM-style automatic radiator in it. That was almost the first thing I checked when I bought the car...

My problem is that for now, I'd probably want to stick with one of the multiple sizes of Miata - ie, a Miata, an E30 or E36, maybe an S2000 or RX8. The last two are outside the budget at the moment, though. It's not that I don't like the Miata - I wouldn't be on NA #4 if I didn't - it's just that my inner accountant has a problem with dumping that much money into it.

I think with this Miata, I'll either disappear way down the rabbit hole until I come out the other end and have a $10k Miata worth $4k, or I pull the plug now and get a car where someone else has already added the upgrades that I would want to put in there.

BoxheadTim wrote: I think with this Miata, I'll either disappear way down the rabbit hole until I come out the other end and have a $10k Miata worth $4k, or I pull the plug now and get a car where someone else has already added the upgrades that I would want to put in there.

I'm afraid that may be where the Miata is right now. They're not worth much, but they're much more useful with more than their value sunk back into them. I think I've finally accepted that and started doing what I want because it gets me the car I want, rather than doing things that make sense financially.

If you can find used parts for things like the wheels and tires, the Miata parts resale market will (theoretically) keep you from losing your shirt if you have to part-out the car at a later date.

If you put the money into this car, you know where it's going. You could buy a "ready to go" car for the money, only to have to do catch up work, replace bodges, or who knows what.

Koni Yellows with Ground Control coilovers are a great setup for not terribly much money.

Better the devil you know...

You want a cheap track toy? Buy the former IT7 car listed in the $20xx classifieds. If I had room, I'd buy it. $1500 with a trailer. You're all set for track days and with a couple of bucks stuck in the cage you can go wheel to wheel.

That IT-7 car is unfortunately both too far away and requires a tow vehicle which we currently don't have.

I'll have a poke around some areas on my Miata tomorrow (mainly I want to find out exactly how healthy the engine is, although it doesn't use any oil and the Italian tuneups on the track seem to make it run better), but so far it looks like I'm going with peter's "better the devil you know". Haven't heard from Ian yet, though .

Tim. Is the plastic front undertray still in place?. I am talking about the piece that goes from the front bumper to to the front sub-frame. If its missing or major pieces of it are missing I have heard it can cause heating problems.

The "inner bumper"/plastic air duct is damaged, as is the main undertray. I'm planning to replace both in the next few weeks.

The car has had some front damage in the past so part of the plan is to pull off the bumper cover and see what else is damaged. I have to do that anyway to replace the air duct and I have to bend some of the mounting points back into shape.

Another potential issue I noticed is that there is a gap between the front mask/radiator surround and the radiator itself. Essentially, air can escape through that gap before it goes through the radiator, so I am planning to close up that gap to force the air through the radiator as well.

Plus, I am planning to fit proper water and oil temperature gauges to keep a better eye on the temperatures.

Sorry... Work has been nuts...

I'm sure you don't, but I should mention it anyway... You don't have your front license plate in the grill area, do you? I found that even steady highway driving on hot days would make my engine temp go up when I had mine zip-tied there. I didn't want to get busted for not having one, so I picked up a nifty JDM-looking offset plate bracket. Keeps the plate there but away from the air intake. It was also easily removable with just one bolt, which I did at autocrosses when I didn't want the plate hitting cones.

First purchase for the car was an offset plate bracket .