Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/27/20 8:48 p.m.

Recently dove into the 20th century with my first "modern" mountain bike. I am running the stock tires and tubes (27.5 x 2.8) and good old fashioned air - I have not switched to tubeless. I know that the rims are "tubeless ready" but I don't know what that means vs "tubeless compatible", for example. Anyway, I noticed that, when filled with air, a 3-inch section of sidewall is bulging out, causing the fine rubber rib (?alignment rib) to pull away from the rim edge. When I deflate the tire, this same section moves freely inboard from the rim, but the rest of the tire seems almost glued to the rim, Again, I have no experience with tubeless ready, and was just expecting to deflate the tube, unbead the tire, and inspect the rim and tire - but I can't get that far.  

 

Any ideas?

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/27/20 8:54 p.m.

TR usually means that the inner rim strips will function to air seal the rim and all you have to do is put a little sealant in and add the valve stems.

Tubeless ready wheel and tire combos typically have a very tight, lock in type fit. Mine take a LOT of pressure and sometimes some soapy water to actually seat the bead. Like 90psi. And it sounds like a gun shot. That also means they can be HARD to get un seated, which is probably why it feels glued. The bulge? I'm not real sure what that's about...

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/27/20 9:04 p.m.

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

wow - how the heck would i be able to do a trail fix on this in the future - does this mean I should really try to get switched over to full tubeless?

OjaiM5
OjaiM5 Reader
5/28/20 11:29 a.m.

Tubeless can be a pain in the arse to initially set-up but I totally prefer riding it.

In order for you to convert, the rim has to be sealed tape usually a company like stans no tubes or similar. You will need two valve stems made for tubeless and finally tire sealer (stans, orange seal ect) 

Almost always it takes a compressor to get the bead to seal. It also takes some time rolling the realer around the tire to seal up. Can get frustrating.

However when you get this to all work, it is  superior out on the dirt. Can air down to 25psi for way more traction. Most of the time you will not get a flat. You do however still have to carry a tube incase of a large failure. 

Do you know if what you have is a wire bead or folding? Wire bead can really stick to the rim and be difficult. 

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/28/20 12:09 p.m.

Do you know if what you have is a wire bead or folding? Wire bead can really stick to the rim and be difficult. 

I do not know - have never seen this tech before. When i peak inside this section of tire that can be pushed inboard from the rim, i can spot a few circumferential bands, perhaps 1/16" diameter. - you can see them in the "deflated" picture - they are slightly lighter in color. Immediately adjacent to this area that can be pushed inboard, i cannot budge the tire edge away from the rim, nor can i anywhere else along the tire edge - again - it feels glued. Something in this section of tire / tube/ rim, there is a failure, but i don't know what normal looks like.

 

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/28/20 12:12 p.m.

So...trail fix....yeah, it can be a problem. If you are running tubeless than most fixes are done by plugging the hole from the outside so the bead seating is not an issue. If you tear one up bad enough you have to put a tube in it, you are in limp-home mode and if the tire doesn't fully seat, so be it.  If you are still running tubes on a TR rim and tire combo....be ready for a fight. Run tubes with sealant in them so you decrease your chance of dealing with it. 

But I have had tires that I had to use tools on to break the bead loose on a deflated tire. Like I grabbed it with a pair of channel locks and had to pry it over to the side of the wheel. Thought I was going to bend the rim but it eventually broke loose. 

As for running tube vs tubeless (bead seat issues aside), my opinion differs form most. I ran Slime tubes for years, commonly as low as 25 PSI in 2.3" tires under a 245lb arse and never had many problems. I run tubeless now and am running 20-25 PSI on 2.4" tires, so about the same. Tubeless is a PITA when you have to work on it. You have to pump it up more often, you have to change the sealant out yearly, you really need a compressor to make it work. You do get fewer flats, although I rarely got flats on tubes anyway. It's a little lighter but not much.  It can be a little more cush and give better traction but I never found the night/day difference a lot of people talk about. In the end I prefer tubeless but not by a huge margin. Granted, really rocky or thorny areas might make that gap a lot wider. I'm in the southeast.

 

My first impression from the photos was actually that the "bulge" was properly seated and the rest f the tire wasn't. But if the rest feels like it's glued down that's probably not the case.

EDIT : tubeless tires can tear the bead off the tire and it might do what you're describing, but it's rare. can you see/feel a raised edge that would serve as the bead around the inside (in rim) edge of the tire?

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
5/28/20 12:34 p.m.
Skobie said:

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

wow - how the heck would i be able to do a trail fix on this in the future - does this mean I should really try to get switched over to full tubeless?

One of two ways, tire levers and a tube is one which sucks but doable. TBH on most of rides I don't carry a tube. Second is a tire plug kit which works great for certain repairs.

 

What tire is it? Is the tire tubeless ready? Some brands of tire and rims fit much tighter then others.

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/28/20 12:35 p.m.

But I have had tires that I had to use tools on to break the bead loose on a deflated tire. Like I grabbed it with a pair of channel locks and had to pry it over to the side of the wheel. Thought I was going to bend the rim but it eventually broke loose. 

So, am i going to ruin the tire by channelocking it? It is essentially new.....the tube might be sacrificed, but I'd prefer not to buy a new tire (online COVID shipping, $, etc)

In the end I prefer tubeless but not by a huge margin. Granted, really rocky or thorny areas might make that gap a lot wider.

I honestly was going to stick with tubes - simple and i know them.

 can you see/feel a raised edge that would serve as the bead around the inside (in rim) edge of the tire?

not really - inside edge of rim feels smooth like i's expect it to be...

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
5/28/20 12:40 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:It can be a little more cush and give better traction but I never found the night/day difference a lot of people talk about. In the end I prefer tubeless but not by a huge margin. Granted, really rocky or thorny areas might make that gap a lot wider. I'm in the southeast.

Before I switched to tubeless, it was getting to where I either had to run around 35 psi or get a flat every ride. And even with 35 psi I'd still get flats.

Since switching I have had two flats one where the tire sideway got completely slashed open. Also in the southeast.

I think it depends on your riding style, the lines you pick and how good you are at not slamming your rear wheel into stuff.

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/28/20 12:40 p.m.

What tire is it? Some brands of tire and rims fit much tighter then others.

Vee Rubber Crown Gem 27.5x2.8

https://veetireco.com/product/plus-size-crown-gem/

mfennell
mfennell Reader
5/28/20 1:10 p.m.

What pressure are you running?   A 2.8 will require (and accept) a lot less than you might be thinking.

FWIW, when I switched to tubeless (using the same tires), I instantly went faster though though it wasn't obvious initially.  I recall thinking 'eh, no big deal', then I went on the next ride with my buddies, one of whom had a U23 US Road Championship under his very tiny belt.  I went from surviving to riding from one ride to the next and I saw improvements on all the Strava segments too.

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/28/20 4:25 p.m.
mfennell said:

What pressure are you running?   A 2.8 will require (and accept) a lot less than you might be thinking.

As low as i can get away with and avoid pinch flats.

To be clear, I have tubes and would like to keep them after i figure out this problem, but the TR mystifies me - i thought that this visible buldge was going to be something "old school", like a weak inner tire layer, or a weak tube section - I'd remove the tire with my thumbs and levers, and go from there. But, I can't even remove the tire, as it seems stuck to the rim outside of this 3" section.

 

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/29/20 9:06 p.m.

finally got the tire off and it looks like the wire bead separated from the sidewall. Weird. There's also a blem on the corresponding area of the rim strip.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
5/29/20 9:15 p.m.

Yep, there's your problem. Blem is probably from wear after the hw bead let go.  Probably be fine.

 

Skobie
Skobie New Reader
5/29/20 9:56 p.m.
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:

Yep, there's your problem. Blem is probably from wear after the hw bead let go.  Probably be fine.

 

so, you mean that rim strip looks ok (that's what i was thinking)....

bmw88rider (Forum Supporter)
bmw88rider (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/1/20 1:18 p.m.

Yeah. That rim strip is just fine. 

 

For field repairs, I always have a tire lever and tube in my bag. That and a CO2 canister for inflation and never had a problem. CO2 will set the bead with no problems. Heck, I can set the bead with my hand pump on my current setup. 

 

I run Continental Race kings on my bike now at 28 PSI on some DT Swiss rims and never had a flat with the setup. Just set up tubeless with a good amount of tire sealant in it. After moving to TL setup there is no way I will ever go back to Tubes. 

Sidewayze
Sidewayze New Reader
6/16/20 1:33 p.m.

Interesting that those are Kenda wire beads.  I destroyed 2 Kenda Juggernaut wire bead fatbike tires trying to remove them from Mulefut rims.  It seemed to be a bad combo.  I actually had to cut the wires to get the tires off the rims. 

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