"But he was watching TV on the Tesla's screen! he's at fault" you say
Of course he is, I say. However if Tesla is so inept that they don't know what flashing lights mean in the middle of the road, they shouldn't be programming cars.
"But he was watching TV on the Tesla's screen! he's at fault" you say
Of course he is, I say. However if Tesla is so inept that they don't know what flashing lights mean in the middle of the road, they shouldn't be programming cars.
People drive into stopped police cars all the time too. But it doesn't make the news. Identifying a stopped vehicle is actually a pretty hard problem technically.
The problem is Level 3 autonomy. That means the car takes care of everything most of the time, but the driver needs to be ready to take over at any time. And people's brains don't work that way. If you're not actively engaged in a process, you won't be able to concentrate on it. And then when the car suddenly runs out of ideas and gives up, it takes too long for the driver to react, assess the situation and take action. It's basically distracted driving but worse, you're not paying attention because the car is not asking for attention. Even driver monitoring systems that watch the driver's eyeballs can't tell the difference between carefully watching for developing problems or just looking at the pretty shapes in the clouds.
The driver in this case should have been monitoring the car. Watching a movie is not a smart move. But that's not a realistic ask for the above reasons.
It's not a "Tesla is stupid!" thing, or "people are stupid!" thing, it's just a bad step on the road to full autonomy. Really, it should only be used as part of the development process on the way to full Level 4 and not sold to the public. And it's not just Tesla that is selling Level 3 cars, GM is as well with a bunch of other manufacturers coming down the pipe.
I agree with Keith. Level 3 is just autonomous enough to get you to relax, but not autonomous enough that you SHOULD relax.
However, while Tesla isn't the only one doing Level 2, they are the only ones that call it "autopilot".
Keith Tanner said:Identifying a stopped vehicle is actually a pretty hard problem technically.
Really? I'll take your word for it.
Interestingly, the adaptive cruise control on the CX-9 will reduce vehicle speed if I get within a certain distance of the car in front of me.
Tesla should probably put a few of their best people on figuring out how to get the car to recognize a stopped vehicle in the lane ahead, because gee whiz, it's kind of important.
1988RedT2 said:Keith Tanner said:Identifying a stopped vehicle is actually a pretty hard problem technically.
Really? I'll take your word for it.
Interestingly, the adaptive cruise control on the CX-9 will reduce vehicle speed if I get within a certain distance of the car in front of me.
Tesla should probably put a few of their best people on figuring out how to get the car to recognize a stopped vehicle in the lane ahead, because gee whiz, it's kind of important.
Not recognizing when a vehicle has low-no velocity relative to the Tesla is literally the most common cause of their autopilot accidents if i remember correctly. Its been an issue for three or four years now.
I really don't know how they get away with beta testing their programming on public streets with people's lives.
Most car accidents involve hitting things that are moving at low or no velocity relative to you.
Beta tester here! I use autopilot daily and find it to be clearly head and shoulders above commercially available systems today. Does that mean it's perfect? No it doesn't and it isn't. Just wanted to clarify the capabilities vs the headline. You cannot watch a move on the screen while driving. You can watch a movie on your cell phone while driving but you can do that in any car not just a Tesla. Now, let's return to vilifying the most advanced driver assistance software currently on the market.
He should've been paying attention. If he wanted to watch the film, he should've called an Uber/Lyft or waited until getting home.
mattm said:. Now, let's return to vilifying the most advanced driver assistance software currently on the market.
Yes! Let's! 
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:I agree with Keith. Level 3 is just autonomous enough to get you to relax, but not autonomous enough that you SHOULD relax.
However, while Tesla isn't the only one doing Level 2, they are the only ones that call it "autopilot".
Yes, yes,yes,yes. That's a tired thing. It's a word that people have latched on to. The Tesla marketing department did too good a job at choosing a name.
But the thing is that it's not actually Tesla calling it that anymore. For them, "Autopilot" refers to "Traffic Aware Cruise Control" and "Autosteer". Basically, adaptive cruise and lane centering. You can't check out and ignore the car.
What everyone else is calling Autopilot and people are using to watch movies, etc is Full Self Driving and it's more Level 3. So it's not actually Tesla using that term. It's also made very clear when you engage Autosteer and (I assume) FSD is that it is beta software. You're not required to use it. Of course people do and they use it recklessly and a few of them end up on the news.
The adoption of autonomy is going to be painful. Even if it has 10% of the mortality rate of human drivers, that's still going to be around 4,000 people a year dying in autonomous cars in the US. Every single one of those will get lawyers involved and the most dramatic ones will be clickbait news stories. You won't hear about the 36,000 people that didn't die. It's just how humans are.
Keith Tanner said:People drive into stopped police cars all the time too. But it doesn't make the news. Identifying a stopped vehicle is actually a pretty hard problem technically.
The problem is Level 3 autonomy. That means the car takes care of everything most of the time, but the driver needs to be ready to take over at any time. And people's brains don't work that way. If you're not actively engaged in a process, you won't be able to concentrate on it. And then when the car suddenly runs out of ideas and gives up, it takes too long for the driver to react, assess the situation and take action. It's basically distracted driving but worse, you're not paying attention because the car is not asking for attention. Even driver monitoring systems that watch the driver's eyeballs can't tell the difference between carefully watching for developing problems or just looking at the pretty shapes in the clouds.
The driver in this case should have been monitoring the car. Watching a movie is not a smart move. But that's not a realistic ask for the above reasons.
It's not a "Tesla is stupid!" thing, or "people are stupid!" thing, it's just a bad step on the road to full autonomy. Really, it should only be used as part of the development process on the way to full Level 4 and not sold to the public. And it's not just Tesla that is selling Level 3 cars, GM is as well with a bunch of other manufacturers coming down the pipe.
Well made argument. No, Tesla does not tell you you can turn on the car and go to sleep. In fact they warn you to be prepared to take over.
New technology will generate issues.
My Grandmother was parking the truck in the garage after her first driving lesson. She pulled in straight and when it came time to stop she pulled back on the steering wheel and yelled whoe!
Crash !
So was that the fault of Ford's. Model A?
I can't just get in my car and go to sleep?!
AFAIK 'Autopilot' is still leagues ahead of real drivers in accidents per mile...
but news outlets are paid by the click, so have every incentive to slap Tesla onto every headline they can.
MrJoshua said:Most car accidents involve hitting things that are moving at low or no velocity relative to you.
I really hope this doesn't sound snarky, if it does, please know that's sincerely not my intent.
Having said that, wouldn't all accidents involve at least one vehicle "hitting things that are moving at low or no velocity relative to you".
I mean logically, the only way that statement wouldn't be true for at least 50% of vehicles involved would be the case of one vehicle hitting two or more other vehicles that were stationary or moving relatively slowly; correct?
In reply to RX Reven' :
As far as I can tell the only exception to that would be head on collisions.
Low or no velocity "relative to you" would mean you and the other vehicle, mailbox, tree, or kangaroo were moving together at the same speed. Hitting a stationary car in your lane should have a fairly high relative velocity.
So there's hope Mustangs will one day stop using humans as bowling pins? 
In reply to SnowMongoose :
Airplanes have had autopilot since the 1930's. Some are now so sophisticated that take off and landing are automatic.
Yet pilots don't have seats that make into beds. Or TV'built into the instrument panel.
Why does the option to watch a movie from the front seat of any moving vehicle exist?
Woody said:Why does the option to watch a movie from the front seat of any moving vehicle exist?
I don't think it exist from any car maker. Now obviously a person smart enough can rewire or code things to undo the safety precautions.
Will "Autopilot" have a way of knowing if your hands are on the wheel ?
or the onboard camera watch you to make sure you are awake and looking forward ?
Seems like a simple thing to do if you wanted to make it safer.....
But it does take it away from Level 3 ,
I still think its doing a great job for the number of cars and miles it has been used !
Sure would be interesting if Tesla would record and report driver interventions per mile the same way that all other companies developing autonomous driving are required to. You never hear about accidents with GMs Super Cruise, or autonomous taxis from Waymo or Cruise. That may simply be due to fewer miles being driven by those technologies, or it may be because they're being developed and released in a more responsible way. If Tesla were held to the same standard, we might actually have an answer.
frenchyd said:
My Grandmother was parking the truck in the garage after her first driving lesson. She pulled in straight and when it came time to stop she pulled back on the steering wheel and yelled whoe!Crash !
So was that the fault of Ford's. Model A?
In that particular case, I would have to say "Neigh!"
STM317 said:Sure would be interesting if Tesla would record and report driver interventions per mile the same way that all other companies developing autonomous driving are required to. You never hear about accidents with GMs Super Cruise, or autonomous taxis from Waymo or Cruise. That may simply be due to fewer miles being driven by those technologies, or it may be because they're being developed and released in a more responsible way. If Tesla were held to the same standard, we might actually have an answer.
More cars driven more miles equal more exposure. So that's your answer.
New guys in a whole new area will get more things wrong than those who follow. That's just the way things develop.
I'm happy that Tesla is made and developed here in America first. At least we still have that edge. Sure China's chipping in but only because Tesla was first.
STM317 said:Sure would be interesting if Tesla would record and report driver interventions per mile the same way that all other companies developing autonomous driving are required to. You never hear about accidents with GMs Super Cruise, or autonomous taxis from Waymo or Cruise. That may simply be due to fewer miles being driven by those technologies, or it may be because they're being developed and released in a more responsible way. If Tesla were held to the same standard, we might actually have an answer.
Well, there was the small Uber problem.
yupididit said:Woody said:Why does the option to watch a movie from the front seat of any moving vehicle exist?
I don't think it exist from any car maker. Now obviously a person smart enough can rewire or code things to undo the safety precautions.
People are watching movies on phones or tablets, not the car display. Although I know it can be done in a Mazda with a bit of tweaking. And by tweaking, I mean "copy this file on to an SD card and plug it in".
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