Question for the AR folks.
Why is the lower considered the firearm? A handle and trigger are less of a weapon than a barrel and bolt. Just curious.
Question for the AR folks.
Why is the lower considered the firearm? A handle and trigger are less of a weapon than a barrel and bolt. Just curious.
barefootskater said:Question for the AR folks.
Why is the lower considered the firearm? A handle and trigger are less of a weapon than a barrel and bolt. Just curious.
The lower of an AR has the serial number. If the upper had the number, the upper would be the firearm. It is just like a vin plate.
In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :
Or does the lower have the serial number because it's the firearm? I'm not disagreeing, just trying to understand the lack of logic from the part of the manufacturers/gubmint. Lower doesn't specify caliber, capacity, range or any of it. Just seems like it might should be the other way around.
In reply to barefootskater :
No, some guns have the upper as the firearm. The AR is one of the only guns that has a market for ust the "serialized" part by itself. We deal with a lot of this so they feel like the norm, but the only requirement is that it is a significant part. For a lot of HK class 3 guns, the sear is the registered component.
In reply to matthewmcl (Forum Supporter) :
I learned something today. Thanks!
In reply to barefootskater :
There was actually a recent court case out in California where the ATF and the federal prosecutor dropped the charges because the lawyer of the gentleman who was charged (correctly) pointed out that an AR lower does not meet the definition of a firearm. Had this gone through the system, it could have entirely shaken up the whole system.
In reply to bigbrainonbrad :
Had that gone upwards in the court system I bet it would have gotten very interesting. Maybe time to buy a different caliber upper or two while I can still have them shipped direct, eh?
I have come into possession of a Lee Load All II and vibratory tumbler and another Lee shot shell press that I cannot find any info on. The tumbler had about 30 S&W .40 shell casings in it. The shell casings have media stuck inside of the casing. I let the tumbler run overnight but nothing came out of the casings and the casings did not clean. I think it is time for new media. 
Meanwhile, I have the shell casings soaking in water to loosen the crud. And I had a few moments fo fun burning off the unknown gun powder that was in the Lee press. *POOF*
In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :
I've heard that from a few folks, but Natchez shipped 1K rounds of 9mm, that's 31 lbs according to the invoice, to me for <$15. I couldn't drive to Chattanooga and back to get the ammo for that.
In reply to barefootskater:
You likely already know this, but just in case, an AR-15 upper isn't going to fit on your AR-10 lower. There are other caliber options in the AR-10 platform, the more common option is the 6.5 Creedmoor, but there's others like .243, 7mm-08, .260, etc. Maybe a little opinion here, but none of those really offer enough of an advantage over the .308 in the AR-10 platform to be worth it. If we're talking bolt guns, long-rangers, or if ya just want another caliber, because, well have at it.
If you want a .223/5.56, .300 Blk, 6.5 Grendel, Valkyrie, or any of the other popular AR-15 calibers, you're going to need an AR-15 lower.
In reply to bigdaddylee82 :
I was halfway thinking of 6.5cm but mostly it was tongue in cheek. Not like I have any disposable income rn anyway. But if it doesn't shine in that platform that's good to know. For real long range stuff, say 500+yds, I'd probably prefer a bolt action anyway.
6.5 Creedmor I THINK is the only potential upgrade from .308 on an AR10, but not by much unless it's availability. That's why I went AR15. I think a 20" 6.5 Grendel is my next/2nd upper then something big like Beowulf. Of course if I had money for an upper I'd spend it on shoring up any weaknesses in what I already have, mags, optics, ammo etc
Stag has blem stripped AR lowers for $65. When PSA's cheapest options is $80, I guess that makes Stag a deal. Sigh...
https://www.stagarms.com/stag-15/sta...receiver-blem/
Discount code STAG5 saves you another 5%
A few places still have "Poverty Pony" lowers in stock. $50 at AIM, and I think they do free shipping >$95.
https://aimsurplus.com/anderson-manufacturing-am15-multi-cal-lower-receiver/
bigdaddylee82 said:Stag has blem stripped AR lowers for $65. When PSA's cheapest options is $80, I guess that makes Stag a deal. Sigh...
https://www.stagarms.com/stag-15/sta...receiver-blem/
Discount code STAG5 saves you another 5%
A few places still have "Poverty Pony" lowers in stock. $50 at AIM, and I think they do free shipping >$95.
https://aimsurplus.com/anderson-manufacturing-am15-multi-cal-lower-receiver/
Anderson gets a really bad rap, but if you're wanting something that goes bang and is minute of milk jug at 100 meters, they're fine. If you're willing to put in a bit of finish work yourself, they're a bargain.
Use the money you saved not buying a high end AR to buy ammunition and range time, get your shooting fundementals squared away and it's like using an NA Miata to beat Porsches during a time attack event.
In reply to Brett_Murphy (Ex-Patrón) :
You don't have to convince me, I don't have a single AR that isn't a mutt of okay-good parts that I could get the best deal on at the time of purchase, including Anderson. I just like alliteration, and a little self deprecating humor. 
barefootskater said:Question for the AR folks.
Why is the lower considered the firearm? A handle and trigger are less of a weapon than a barrel and bolt. Just curious.
Going from memory here but the definition of the "serialized part" is supposed to be the part that holds the firing mechanism, barrel and received the bolt. They had to pick one and went with the lower, which makes it convenient for using multiple uppers with a single lower.
Justjim75 said:6.5 Creedmor I THINK is the only potential upgrade from .308 on an AR10, but not by much unless it's availability. That's why I went AR15. I think a 20" 6.5 Grendel is my next/2nd upper then something big like Beowulf. Of course if I had money for an upper I'd spend it on shoring up any weaknesses in what I already have, mags, optics, ammo etc
An AR10 should be able to be converted to most short action chambering like 260Rem, and luckily many share a bolt head size with .308
Justjim75 said:6.5 Creedmor I THINK is the only potential upgrade from .308 on an AR10, but not by much unless it's availability. That's why I went AR15. I think a 20" 6.5 Grendel is my next/2nd upper then something big like Beowulf. Of course if I had money for an upper I'd spend it on shoring up any weaknesses in what I already have, mags, optics, ammo etc
If I had money, I would build an AR-15 with quality components in .300 HAM'R. It looks like quite a round.
Went shooting at my buddy's house today. All I can say is, if you've never shot steel targets . . . don't. There's simply no going back to paper targets.
noddaz said:Justjim75 said:6.5 Creedmor I THINK is the only potential upgrade from .308 on an AR10, but not by much unless it's availability. That's why I went AR15. I think a 20" 6.5 Grendel is my next/2nd upper then something big like Beowulf. Of course if I had money for an upper I'd spend it on shoring up any weaknesses in what I already have, mags, optics, ammo etc
If I had money, I would build an AR-15 with quality components in .300 HAM'R. It looks like quite a round.
Sounds like Remington's aborted RAR .30, or the current .350 Legend. I hope Wilson gets some ammo manufacturers to make the round, and enough firearm manufacturers chamber it in stuff to keep it around. I don't care how awesome a round is, if I can only buy it from one place at a premium for the privilege, I'll pass, looking at you Sharps .25-45.
Winchester seems to have done pretty good at getting the .350 Legend to market, I think there are more Ruger American rifles chambered in it than any other options.
Is there such a thing as an AR pattern rifle in 45-70? Anything other than lever guns, something semi auto?
Strizzo said:Justjim75 said:6.5 Creedmor I THINK is the only potential upgrade from .308 on an AR10, but not by much unless it's availability. That's why I went AR15. I think a 20" 6.5 Grendel is my next/2nd upper then something big like Beowulf. Of course if I had money for an upper I'd spend it on shoring up any weaknesses in what I already have, mags, optics, ammo etc
An AR10 should be able to be converted to most short action chambering like 260Rem, and luckily many share a bolt head size with .308
I know a guy that just put one (AR10 platform) together with a 6.5 upper, and a .260. Haven't talked to him since he fired it, but I haven't heard he didn't like it!
Justjim75 said:Is there such a thing as an AR pattern rifle in 45-70? Anything other than lever guns, something semi auto?
You could do like a 450 Bushmaster which would be very ballistically similar.
I don't think 45-70 has ever been chambered in a AR
noddaz said: If I had money, I would build an AR-15 with quality components in .300 HAM'R. It looks like quite a round.
The 30 Herrett, the .300 Ham'r and a bunch of other things look interesting, too, but much like you I'm finances limited. I'm a fan of the 6.8 SPC on the AR platformm but I'm not an "all other rounds suck!" kind of person, either.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:Justjim75 said:Is there such a thing as an AR pattern rifle in 45-70? Anything other than lever guns, something semi auto?
You could do like a 450 Bushmaster which would be very ballistically similar.
I don't think 45-70 has ever been chambered in a AR
Unless I'm mistaken, the 50 Beowulf is ballistically similar to some 45-70 loads. That's AR-compatible for sure.
From: https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/450-bushmaster-vs-458-socom-vs-50-beowulf/
This is comparing .450 Bushmaster, .458 SOCOM, and .50 Beowulf to both vintage safe "low power" and modern "magnum" .45-70. I didn't see where they said what any of their barrel lengths are, assuming 16" for the AR cartridges, but I'd guess 22" for the .45-70 (they mention an 1895), so not apples to apples.
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