barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/1/22 1:38 p.m.

Yesterday was my day off so I was making the rounds to all the local shops and pawns and didn't find anything I really liked. Sportsman's had a Benelli Nova field model, which is what I want but with too much barrel. Side by side against the CZs and Mossy 500s and Stoegers (owned by benelli, made in turkey), nothing even came close to feeling as nice working the slide or shouldering. And for the intended purpose, nothing else had the ability to take a 3.5" shell either. Of course they didn't have the mode I want in stock, but they show available online which means no shipping or transfer fees. 
The animal

llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
3/1/22 5:54 p.m.

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? I have one and am toying with trying to find ammo to play around with it. Supposed to be good out to 200-250yds which is my favorite distance.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago UberDork
3/1/22 7:55 p.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

What don't you like about the Mossberg 500? I'm a big fan of mine, especially since I installed the Magpul furniture, extended metal safety button, and night sight. Furniture took care of the loose forend, bigger safety button makes the safety a no-brainer, and the night sight is just neat. 

Of course, that safety I like so much is terrible for a pistol grip...

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/1/22 8:26 p.m.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Almost all of my shooting experience with Mossbergs is with the cheaper ones. I've had a couple Mavericks jam on me. The 500s seem to have a much better reputation, but are the same money (almost) as the Benellis and nowhere near as smooth. Maybe they're clunky like an AK, and it's just space for dirt and mud... but all my experience says buy Benelli. Idk. 
To be fair, the vast majority of my scatter gun experience is with break action weapons. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
3/1/22 8:31 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Almost all of my shooting experience with Mossbergs is with the cheaper ones. I've had a couple Mavericks jam on me. The 500s seem to have a much better reputation, but are the same money (almost) as the Benellis and nowhere near as smooth. Maybe they're clunky like an AK, and it's just space for dirt and mud... but all my experience says buy Benelli. Idk. 
To be fair, the vast majority of my scatter gun experience is with break action weapons. 

Mavericks aren't really on the same level as a 500. I bought one years ago because they were $99 new. It was ok.

 

Really though you should look at 590s if you are looking at Mossburgs.

Or a Shockwave

Noddaz
Noddaz UberDork
3/1/22 8:31 p.m.
llysgennad said:

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? I have one and am toying with trying to find ammo to play around with it. Supposed to be good out to 200-250yds which is my favorite distance.

I have one.  Ammo is way too expensive to take it out very often.  Last time was before covid.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago UberDork
3/1/22 8:37 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

The 590 is a 500 with a 20" barrel, 8 round mag, and metal trigger guard right?

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/1/22 8:39 p.m.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

The 590 has some interesting variants... I'll see if I can get my hands on one before dropping coin. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
3/1/22 8:46 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

The 590 is a 500 with a 20" barrel, 8 round mag, and metal trigger guard right?

Basically IIRC but it's also better finished

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
3/1/22 8:50 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

The 590 has some interesting variants... I'll see if I can get my hands on one before dropping coin. 

And it sounds insane but Shockwaves are remarkably cool and pretty handy.

I don't think it's a replacement for an actual shotgun, it's a totally different animal altogether

Oapfu
Oapfu New Reader
3/1/22 9:48 p.m.

Another 500-590 difference is the way the barrel attaches to the mag tube.  590 allows a mag tube extension, 500 does not.

Demonstrated Concepts has a non-traditional technique for birds head grip and stockless shotguns/ pistols/ 'firearms'

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago UberDork
3/1/22 9:57 p.m.

In reply to Oapfu :

Oh right, forgot about that. That's the one thing I wish my 500 had. 

llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
3/1/22 10:19 p.m.
Noddaz said:
llysgennad said:

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? I have one and am toying with trying to find ammo to play around with it. Supposed to be good out to 200-250yds which is my favorite distance.

I have one.  Ammo is way too expensive to take it out very often.  Last time was before covid.

Yeah, about $3/rd is all I've found. What's it like to shoot? Just like any other old bolt action I assume? I've never shot anything with a bayonet attached. Could be fun

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/2/22 8:15 a.m.

In reply to llysgennad :

I believe the 6.5 x 50 Arisaka is still a regular .264 bullet (some other Japanese round was .261, if I understand correctly). That means regular 6.5mm bullets work fine.

You can buy a 50 pack of empty brass for about $22

Time to start reloading? Here is The Reloading Thread in case you missed it.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
3/2/22 8:59 a.m.
Noddaz said:
llysgennad said:

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? I have one and am toying with trying to find ammo to play around with it. Supposed to be good out to 200-250yds which is my favorite distance.

I have one.  Ammo is way too expensive to take it out very often.  Last time was before covid.

Most people do a conversion to a different caliber.  I vaguely think it's to 257 Roberts.  

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) MegaDork
3/2/22 10:50 a.m.

In reply to llysgennad :

Have it inspected by a gunsmith if you've never shot it. 
If it still has the chrysanthemum on it, many would consider it a collector's item, not a shooter.

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
3/2/22 11:23 a.m.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:
thatsnowinnebago said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

The 590 is a 500 with a 20" barrel, 8 round mag, and metal trigger guard right?

Basically IIRC but it's also better finished

Sorry to jump in but was curious why not an autoloader?  I was thinking of building something like a remington 1100 or 11/87 and adding the extended mag and tactical furniture.  Unless jamming is an issue it would seem the better choice?

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 11:34 a.m.

In reply to 84FSP :

For me, I'm sticking to a pumper just out of an abundance of caution. The plan is a once in a while pumpkin shredding giggle factory, but mostly a "hey you really should have knocked first" deterrent. In the latter scenario, any possibility of a jam or other malfunction is unacceptable. If I ever need it, I need to know it'll work. Also, in such an event, the sound of the slide should be good deterrent on its own. Basically, I don't trust the autos in my price range. 

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
3/2/22 11:50 a.m.

In reply to barefootcyborg5000 :

That makes sense - Like the revolver vs semi-auto preference thing.  Was just curious as I see very few semi autos vs pumps done up tactical and wondered why.  
 

I don't particularly need one but have wanted to build one for a while as that seems like the best solution for the money.

llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
3/2/22 12:22 p.m.
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) said:

In reply to llysgennad :

Have it inspected by a gunsmith if you've never shot it. 
If it still has the chrysanthemum on it, many would consider it a collector's item, not a shooter.

It has been, several times over the years. No issues discovered. It hasn't been shot in at least 60 yrs I'm guessing. No more mum, ground off. It is one of the rarer shortened versions with stabber, but still more a novelty than collector.

slantvaliant (Forum Supporter)
slantvaliant (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/2/22 12:46 p.m.
llysgennad said:

Long shot (hah) but has anyone ever played with a 6.5 x 50 Arisaka? 

I have.  Not a bad round, just not as hot as some of the newer 6.5's or my favorite midbore,  6.5x55.  Brass isn't easy to find even in normal times.  You can form brass from other cases, with mixed results.  Handloading is fairly straighforward.  Mind the shellholder and rim size.

I also have a Type 38 carbine that was rechambered in the 50's or 60's to a wildcat cartridge called 6.5-.257 Roberts.  That's really close to the old 6.5x57 Mauser, and it's a decent round.  A little more case capacity improves performance, and it feeds well unlike some wildcat cartridges.

How's your rifle's bore?  Mine aren't great, like they spent some time in the Pacific ...

Oh, yeah:  Mum or no mum?

 

matthewmcl
matthewmcl Dork
3/2/22 2:18 p.m.
barefootcyborg5000 said:

For me, I'm sticking to a pumper just out of an abundance of caution.  any possibility of a jam or other malfunction is unacceptable. If I ever need it, I need to know it'll work. Also, in such an event, the sound of the slide should be good deterrent on its own. Basically, I don't trust the autos in my price range. 

So, about that... In the days when semi-autos were rare, it was pretty easy for a person to be more reliable than the semi-auto. These days, a good gun is better than you are. You are more likely to short stroke than to have a decent semi-auto jam. Get the gun that runs perfectly even when you don't, because if you need it, your attention may well be elsewhere. Also, racking the bolt on a semi-auto is just as loud as racking a pump; all the same stuff is going on.

My advice is get/load some 125 or 110 grain loads for your AR-10, something that breaks up quickly. A box of 20 will be far more rounds than you are picking up when you grab a shotgun, even with reloads on the side. Save up for the quality you want.

If you like pumps, and want a pump, by all means get a pump, just realize it is not any extra caution. There is are reasons why even the old school defensive scatter gun guys run semi-autos. One other thing to remember: Ideally you shelter in place and keep your family safe; no one can steal enough to cost more than a lawyer. But, if part of your family is elsewhere, and you need to get to them, you might need to open a door. Firing a shouldered shotgun one handed is not the nicest thing in the world, but that semi-auto will cycle another round in just fine. Being able to grab a doorknob, toss a phone, grab a kid, hit a light switch, etc., may be more in your future than having a good semi-auto jam. A pump, in that case, needs you to let go of something before you can have another round loaded.

Just my $.02

barefootcyborg5000
barefootcyborg5000 PowerDork
3/2/22 2:37 p.m.

In reply to matthewmcl :

As always, good insight. Maybe I have more homework to do. 

One thing, the .308 is in my eyes more of a hunting/marksmanship tool than a defensive one. And with the glass mounted it's pretty useless in close range. I could put a laser on it for such purposes, and the colapseable stock offers flexibility in tight quarters... but racking it is a trigger hand operation for me, which makes a pump gun faster on reaction. I don't think I would ever consider keeping a chambered gun in the house; loaded is one thing, chambered is another. It is also heavier than a shotgun. Once I actually get to loading it does make sense to have some light loads with projectiles that are meant to stop or disintegrate on impact, so I'll have to find suitable bullets and test for reliability as my gas block isn't adjustable. Just the thought of using that rifle indoors makes me uneasy. 
A big plus for the Benelli is the 3.5" capacity. An enterprising individual could put a 600gr slug in and knock down anything on feet. 

Also we can't forget the cost of practice and training. Target loads for 12ga are still $.25 all day every day. Even loading my own .308 is double at best, and the time loading could be spent at the range with a scatter gun... idk. Lots of different angles to consider. 

Antihero (Forum Supporter)
Antihero (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
3/2/22 3:10 p.m.

I use a pump because I want the ability to use all power levels whenever I want. It was exceptionally handy to be able to use mini shells in the Shockwave when my wife first started shooting one before she realized the recoil wasn't that bad with 2.75s

 

I will say I think 3.5inch is incredibly brutal and I seriously don't you'd want to fire a slug from it.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
3/2/22 3:29 p.m.

My autoloader is really really really old. 114 this year to be honest. But she's not really made for modern loads. 

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