Brainstorm with me... cheap steel

I need some steel for fabrication at the theater.  I'm making some storage carts for folding chairs, so I'm looking for 1.5 x 1.5 thin wall steel or similar

Buying it new is out of the question.  Way too expensive.  Buying used/salvaged steel is also out of the question, as it only seems to save about 10% over new.  I also thought about unistrut, but again... still really expensive.

So my brain started working.  You know how if you're looking for a replacement fender it might cost $200... or you can buy an entire scrap car for $300 and take off the fender and part the rest, right?.  So instead of buying the raw materials for $3/ft, I'm hoping to find something like (for instance) a bunch of cattle/livestock gates for $50 each and cutting it up for the steel.  A cattle gate won't work since it is usually round tube and I can't imagine the amount of work and cost with jigs and hole saws to make round tube a viable option.

For reference, these are the chairs I'm storing; folding audience chairs. They are about 35 lbs each if you believe the literature, but I don't think they're quite that much.  I'm hoping to make carts that will hold 20 chairs each and I own about 120 chairs, so 6 carts.  Now, of course the manufacturer makes their own carts, but they A) take up a very large amount of real estate for not many chairs, and B) cost $1300 each.

I did a super rough quicky drawing of my basic idea.  This thing on casters.

I need help brainstorming something that is made out of square or rectangular tubing that usually has a lower value as an assembly (like a cheap livestock gate) that I can buy a lot of and scavenge the steel.

Bed frames sound just about perfect for what you're looking for. 

I have some bedframes, but they are not beefy enough.  They are designed to hold a rigid-framed box spring, but the steel alone is pretty flexible.  They are usually made from 1 x 1.5" angle in a pretty thin gauge.  The ones I have I can grab one end and twist it almost 90 degrees by hand.

In reply to Curtis73 :

Any possibility you could rough sketch in how the chairs would sit on the frame drawing?

I'm not sure what too expensive is, but these Rolling chair racks hold 50 chairs at $135 each, so you would need three ($405). Shipping is free.

Even if you can find inexpensive steel, casters that will handle 200 lbs each will be at least $10 a piece, so $240 for your 6 carts and that is before you even start on the labor.

Sure.  Each pair of arms would hold chairs like this.  (they fold up a little flatter than my picture, but you get the idea)

Each pair of arms on each side would be long enough for 5 chairs each for a total of 20 chairs.

Find a better steel supply house?

https://www.shapirosupply.com/steel-square-tube-br-8-x-8-x-250-x-26.html

These guys have 1.5 square .065 for $1.58/ft.  If you buy a full stick it's probably closer to $1.30.  What you have there is probably about 30' of steel so maybe $50 each plus casters? 

Call around to a few steel shops.   Ask what their high volume size is.  Generally you may want 1.5" .083 but you may be able to get 1.25" .120 for like 40% less.  

Otherwise yes anything steel could be harvested for steel.  You could also weld steel tube out of bedframe angles. .  but weld wire isn't cheap.

In reply to Curtis73 :

Tying the sides into each other would prevent the bedframe steel from twisting.  Might need a gusset on the bottom.

But after looking around, I'd be inclined to lean towards CJ's idea, actually. 

If you do make it yourself, I would put maybe a 5 degree upwards angle on the supports so the chairs dont slide off.

Find your local steel processing mill. Someplace with a slitter or cut-to-length line. They will have bins of trim, excess, and end pieces for free. Make a friend and get some great stuff for nothing.

CJ said:

I'm not sure what too expensive is, but these Rolling chair racks hold 50 chairs at $135 each, so you would need three ($405). Shipping is free.

Even if you can find inexpensive steel, casters that will handle 200 lbs each will be at least $10 a piece, so $240 for your 6 carts and that is before you even start on the labor.

 

 

Those look scary and top heavy ,  maybe just for storage but I would not want to push them across a parking lot etc

californiamilleghia said:

CJ said:

I'm not sure what too expensive is, but these Rolling chair racks hold 50 chairs at $135 each, so you would need three ($405). Shipping is free.

Even if you can find inexpensive steel, casters that will handle 200 lbs each will be at least $10 a piece, so $240 for your 6 carts and that is before you even start on the labor.

 

 

Those look scary and top heavy ,  maybe just for storage but I would not want to push them across a parking lot etc

Also, they won't work for my chairs.  Follow the link in my first post to see what they look like.  35 lbs each, and about 10" thick folded.

Can you give us an idea of how much you have to spend? How many feet do you need? How much is the steel company asking? 

Tubing is always the most expensive option. Structural members like channel and angle will always be cheaper.

6 carts, likely about 48' per cart.  I do have enough heavy angle (2x2x1/8) that I can make some of the bases with that, so to be fair, maybe an average of more like 45' per cart would need to be purchased.

In the 1.5 x 1.5 x .083 wall square size I'm finding for $2.50/ft used.  Amazon new is $6/ft, but they have to factor in the free shipping.  I negotiated a bulk rate with the local steel supplier of $3.50/ft in exchange for an ad in our next show program.

So even at the cheapest possible (used) steel supply, I'm looking at a bare minimum of nearly $700.

Budget is basically zero dollars.  I'll have to procure the steel on my own and the theater will reimburse me after the ticket sales for the next show come in.  Needless to say, absolute bare minimum is the key here.

I agree that structural things like channel and angle are cheaper, but also weaker.  I'm finding in my amateur engineering calculations that in order to get the same strength in a channel as I do tubing, I have to go considerably thicker, thereby negating most of the savings.  Cheaper to make, but it will take more thickness of material to get the same weight capacity which nearly eliminates the savings.

Javelin said:

Find your local steel processing mill. Someplace with a slitter or cut-to-length line. They will have bins of trim, excess, and end pieces for free. Make a friend and get some great stuff for nothing.

This is definitely worth a look.  I think my nearest processing mill is about 3 hours away, but I can give them a call.  Most of the drops I'm finding at local steel suppliers are no more than a few inches up to a foot, and even then they want precious money for them.  They'll recycle them for 3 cents a pound, or try to charge me $1/lb if I want to take any with me.

Equipment riggers (the guys who deliver new CNC machines and move used ones around) usually end up bringing the shipping containers that the new equipment comes in back to their yard and from there they probably recycle the metal. There are many of these containers that feature steel tubing for the floors of the container - especially the Japanese OEMs.

I have harvested tubing off of these frames. It's a long shot but maybe this would work out for you.

Metal studs from the local box store, doubled up (to box them in) or back to back (so you end up with an I beam shape)?

HD's website shows a 12' stud for $9.98. That's $0.83/ft. You'd probably have to double them up or box them in some way, but that still leaves you with $1.66/ft

Do you have some sort of contractor's account or card with a local place for all the supplies/materials you normally buy? That might knock the price down even more.

How about looking for some used basketball goals? They may be round instead of square tubing though.

In reply to STM317 :

Typical light gage metal studs are so flimsy as to be laughable in any but a direct axial loading, and even then they are only strong with lots of bridging or drywall on at least one side. 
 

Buy it from China?

This may no longer work, but years ago I got a lot of free rectangular (1x2x.060) from a John Deere dealer. The riding mowers came in crates framed with it, and they were glad to see it disappear. Scrap was down at the time...

Put some casters on IBC totes, then drop them down inside. 

Something is wrong with your steel pricing. :)

I am a fab shop, yes, but pay .58 cents per foot for 1" square tube 14ga.

If you call local suppliers and pretend you know what you're talking (i.e " this is Curtis with xyz theater and I need a quote on 5 sticks of 1" square tube 16ga)  about they'll give you a similar quote (one would think...I know location matters.) 

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If you look closely at cattle gates, they don't cope the round  tube generally. They smash it flat and weld it....very common.

In a like manner you could buy some emt conduit...generally very cheap. .59 cent per foot at lowes for 3/4"...which is about 1" od.

Flatten the end, cut grind weld.

Or bolt together:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS724US724&ei=vF4vXqO8CYq1gge5ybyoCw&q=how+to+flatten+conduit+ends&oq=smashing+conduit+to+weld&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i71l8.0.0..17377...0.2..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.kfqjjjU2PL8

I agree with Jamscal that you are getting hosed on the steel pricing. You need to find a friend of the theater that will help you get a decent rate on the steel. There must be somebody you know who works with steel.

Craigslist freebies ?

Since we're brainstorming, what about wood or hybrid designs?

You may have better luck getting lumber donated to build the racks and frame. 

The hybrid approach could be wood base and uprights (4x4, double 2x6, double 2x4) and drilled to fit black iron pipe through as the horizontal supports for the chairs.