Buying a zero turn mower, what to look for?

I've been reading a lot about these, and although everyone repeats "get a commercial model!", no one actually explains what makes a commercial model, well, commercial.   I'm not sure whether I'll be hunting new or used models yet, and I guess that depends on what I find.   I know that dixie chopper is generally agreed upon as the best, but they're scarce up here in New England.

I'm trying to cut my mowing time down from 3.5 hours to 1-1.5ish on 3 acres, home-owner use only.   The biggest killer for me right now is that I almost always have at least a half hour to hour of service on the ol' cub cadet 149 before I can do those 3-4 hours of mowing.  The other consideration is that I use my 149 to tow a yard cart during leaf or mulch season.   I know Dixies are rated @ a 2000lb tow capacity, but I doubt the yard cart ever gets north of 300-400 all in, so I don't know that it's a big concern.  The 149 is a 74, and I've been using it since 2008, so I'd like something that is in it for the long haul.  Repairable, dependable, etc.   The 149 is just wearing out past my ability to pour time into it.

So, what am I looking for?   From my read, at my expected usage, just about any brand from the local mower shop will be sufficient (seems like eXmark, Cub, JD, etc are all availible).  Is it really as easy as just looking for a fabricated/welded deck, and the rest will be normal maintenance and expected mechanical replacements every now and then?

Thanks!

99% of the mowers on the market will be more than enough for 99.5% of people. The other .5% will have to pony up for a Scag

I ended up getting a good deal ($500) on a 400 hour Gravely ZT1340 with a Kohler motor as my neighbor was upgrading to a larger unit.  It does have a fabricated deck.  

I've read about some issues with the motor and drive systems but it's been good so far. A big step up from the little riders I was using. 

This appears to fall in the heavier residential use category which is honestly probably fine for your uses. 

My next door neighbor is a lawn service guy and basically looked at the deck/spindle setup and gave his blessing for what it's worth. 

We have 3.5 acres and some serious hills. I was told the "home" grade ones can't handle slopes well and to stick to a commercial unit. From my reading, the big thing about commercial mowers is weight and stability. I bought a low hours John deere 777 commercial mower and it's around 1,300 pounds all in whereas a home unit would be half that. The track width and tires are bigger, the deck is 7-gauge stamped steel so no welds or seams to break or catch grass. The mower is totally repairable and parts are available. They're not cheap, but they're available, whereas a lot of home units you can't get certain parts and certainly once they've been out of Lowe's / Home Depot for a few years parts availability dries up.

One thing to look out for is the hours count. These mowers can see some serious usage. A lot of the mowers I was looking at had hours counts in the 3,000+ hours. That's like mowing your lawn for decades. I hunted and found one with around 600 hours on it and made an aggressive offer for it on eBay. It was at a local Deere dealer and they said if I bought it directly from them they would take the offer, since it was the end of season and the thing would sit all winter otherwise.

I've been very pleased, and it takes about 1 - 1.5 hours to mow our 3.5 acres, so right about at your target. I paid about $5000 for it, which is about 1/2-1/3 of new.

My experience mirrors dculberson's. I bought a Scag Turf Tiger a few months into owning our current place (3 acres). It's an older unit, but was homeowner used, rather than a business, so it had something like 700hrs. Should easily hit 3000hrs with routine maintenance. An identical mower would cost around $15k new. I can deal with some faded paint when I'm buying for 1/3 the price of new. I use a smaller walk-behind mower for some tight spaces and a steep hill, but the whole job takes me 1.5 hrs.

Construction and serviceability are what separate commercial mowers from residential units. Hydraulic pumps are superior, and should have their own cooling loop. Frames are sturdier. Decks are more rigid, and able to process more clippings at a faster pace. The deck on my Scag is shaft driven, rather than belt driven. Pretty much everything that spins or swivels is greaseable for longer service life. Liquid cooled engines will be more fuel efficient and last much longer than air cooled engines too. My goal is to take care of it, and have it be my mower for a couple of decades.

As others will undoubtedly suggest:

Just steer (jokes) clear of HD/Lowe’s “entry level” models. Your local CC/JD/whatever tractor dealer will have a similar entry level model that wasn’t assembled by drunken monkeys using zipties & coathangers.

We bought ours at HD because it was Sunday, Tractor places were closed, and I wanted to get it DONE. Went by the John Deere dealer the next week and asked “Are the ones you sell really that different?”

He had me grab the front bumper of theirs and try to shake it. Nothin. They had an HD model (same as mine) in for service. Did the same grab & shake, and you could definitely tell the difference. Confirmed when I got back home.

Also, I went to start mine last time and...nothing. Lifted the hood. Terminal ends were berkeleying finger-tight. 

Probably chicken-E36 M3 stuff, but still, I wish I’d gone to the dealer instead of HD.

YMMV.

I bought a Gravely a couple seasons back. I bought the lowest model that had the "commercial" transaxle.  The difference at that time was that the "homeowner" units used hydro drives that WERE SEALED UNITS and couldn't have the fluid changed, plus they had smaller diameter axle stubs. The "commercial" units had provisions built in for changing the fluid and had beefier axles. 

Since most of the issues I'd read about had to do with the viscous drives dying as a result of heat and over use, I figured being able to swap the fluid would be a good thing. I haven't got enough hours on mine (70 maybe?) yet to do it though. 

Mine's  a 42" fabricated deck unit with a 21HP Kohler. It's been awesome so far and although the hours aren't high I beat it. Tall thick grass (because Georgia), banged it into stuff, it runs great and the deck is still straight. A buddy of mine bough a John Deere at the same time and he's about to scrap it and buy a Gravely like mine. He got the stamped deck and the sand on his property has almost eaten it, plus he's had to straighten it and weld cracks from stick impacts repeatedly.  EDIT for clarity: the JD is a homeowner model, hence his problems. Nothing wrong with JD commercial.

I've been scoping ZTRs out myself.  What you are looking for are the ones with upgraded hydrostatic drives.  If the unit you are looking at doesn't say what model hydrostat has, it probably has the cheap ones that cannot be serviced.   From what I can tell, its going to cost at least $4k to get a good one.   That's more than I can justify.    The cost of the used ones are high as well.   

https://todaysmower.com/do-you-really-need-a-zero-turn-mower/

Agreed with others, avoid the box store stuff.  My dad bought a Husquvarna tractor from Lowes about 3 years ago. Recently he's been having trouble with it going up hills.  He did some troubleshooting and looking online and it seems like the problem is the hydraulic fluid being low.  No big deal right?  Except that there is a) no way to check the level, b) no way to add fluid, and c) no way to drain or otherwise change the fluid.  It's "sealed for life". Yeah.  berkeley that.  

If you have a big yard, without a lot of maneuvering required, a big tractor with a 60" deck should work just fine, and be a lot more flexible.  

The better hydro drives have filters and a  separate reservoir to hold the fluid. So, ask or look for the filters (one for each side) under the rear. Some will put plastic covers to protect the filter from damage making it more difficult to see the filter.  After that pick your favorite motor. Get a good deck. Also chose between suspension or no suspension.. Brands really don’t matter IMHO if they have the features above. It comes down to a Ford, Chevy thing as far as Scag, Ferris, Deere etc.

ultraclyde said:

Mine's  a 42" fabricated deck unit with a 21HP Kohler. It's been awesome so far and although the hours aren't high I beat it. Tall thick grass (because Georgia), banged it into stuff, it runs great and the deck is still straight. A buddy of mine bough a John Deere at the same time and he's about to scrap it and buy a Gravely like mine. He got the stamped deck and the sand on his property has almost eaten it, plus he's had to straighten it and weld cracks from stick impacts repeatedly.

He did not get a commercial mower with the 7 iron deck if that's what's happened to his. I hit a piece of re-bar (holding landscape timbers back) with my John Deere and it turned that rebar into a candy cane with chop marks up the length of it and spit it out the other side and I didn't harm the deck or even bend the blades. Be careful drawing conclusions from very limited data: John Deere sells home grade stuff with wimpy decks, but the commercial stuff is not even remotely comparable. The 7iron deck is every bit as strong as - or stronger than - a fabricated deck and has some good advantages to it. It's not the end all be all, but it's absolutely strong enough for a decades long service life.

https://www.kubotausa.com/products/mowers/zero-turn-mowers/z400

Thanks for the discussion, Gents.  It looks like the hydros are the biggest sign of comm vs cheap, which is good since they were the biggest cause of my concern.   The hydro in my 149 is still going strong and I'd like to get something that's serviceable for 44 years again :)

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

I went through this same issue 5 years ago. My decades old Honda rider needed as much maintenance as a new one would cost. Then I looked at the rest of my equipment and that was all pretty shabby or ready to quit. 

Doing the math I decided it was time I accepted my mortality and realize that maybe it was time to let someone else do it.  

He costs me $35-40 a time depending on how many Thursdays  are in the month. The work is fantastic my lawn has never looked so good!  Minus the cost of equipment I figure it costs me about $2 an hour to have him do it.  It used to take me about 2+ hours a week to do plus sharpening time and maintenance. 

Ok 3&1/2 acres is going to cost more. But by not buying new equipment I spent the money on other priorities and freed up a bunch of my time every week. 

A lot of good advice here. Commercial, the best you can afford, etc..

Similar to other products, such as bicycles, I prefer to find the best local dealers/repair shops and go with their inventory. 

I was in the horticulture industry for 30 years and had a yard maintenance biz for 5 or 6 years and preferred the ExMark Lazer Z.  John Deere and Toro were fine, also. There were some others such as Dixie Chopper but I went with the best shop and never looked back. If a part failed I could scoot to the shop and get it replaced quickly or get it fixed there quickly and get back to work.

By the way, the best blowers, trimmers, etc. are Red Max. Period. Pay 20% more and never need to repair. Use the best synthetic 2 stroke additive.

I just acquired a Lowe's Husqvarna 54", 24hp v twin for my 4 acre residential and commercial property (there are two mower repair shops within less than a mile). I paid cash to avoid a loan for the pro stuff and had never used a lawn tractor before. Since it's new it is a good machine but it's light years from a zero turn. I have drainage ditches, some awkward levels, and about a linear 1.5 miles of trim area (ditches, trees, roads, fences). Zero turns are great for these situations. The lawn tractor is a dinosaur in comparison.

volvoclearinghouse said:

https://todaysmower.com/do-you-really-need-a-zero-turn-mower/

Agreed with others, avoid the box store stuff.  My dad bought a Husquvarna tractor from Lowes about 3 years ago. Recently he's been having trouble with it going up hills.  He did some troubleshooting and looking online and it seems like the problem is the hydraulic fluid being low.  No big deal right?  Except that there is a) no way to check the level, b) no way to add fluid, and c) no way to drain or otherwise change the fluid.  It's "sealed for life". Yeah.  berkeley that.  

If you have a big yard, without a lot of maneuvering required, a big tractor with a 60" deck should work just fine, and be a lot more flexible.  

Thanks for the link, VCH.  Based on what I'm seeing, though, a tractor that will spin a 60" deck is going to be a LOT more expensive than a ZTR.  My friend has one on his kubota, and I think that the tractor, cutting deck and front bucket was somewhere in the 16k range.  That's about 3 times what my max budget would be.

If I'm going to haul anything too large, I have my truck.

In reply to Hasbro :

Thanks for the brand reviews. 

I'm just starting to research the local offerings, but the shop that I've been buying all of my cub stuff from sells Gravely which seems to be well made.  Other locals sell ExMark, which look good as well.   I'm definitely not buying from a box store, though.  I like the local guys and it's worth paying a bit more to be able to pick their brains when I stop in.

dculberson said:

ultraclyde said:

Mine's  a 42" fabricated deck unit with a 21HP Kohler. It's been awesome so far and although the hours aren't high I beat it. Tall thick grass (because Georgia), banged it into stuff, it runs great and the deck is still straight. A buddy of mine bough a John Deere at the same time and he's about to scrap it and buy a Gravely like mine. He got the stamped deck and the sand on his property has almost eaten it, plus he's had to straighten it and weld cracks from stick impacts repeatedly.

He did not get a commercial mower with the 7 iron deck if that's what's happened to his. I hit a piece of re-bar (holding landscape timbers back) with my John Deere and it turned that rebar into a candy cane with chop marks up the length of it and spit it out the other side and I didn't harm the deck or even bend the blades. Be careful drawing conclusions from very limited data: John Deere sells home grade stuff with wimpy decks, but the commercial stuff is not even remotely comparable. The 7iron deck is every bit as strong as - or stronger than - a fabricated deck and has some good advantages to it. It's not the end all be all, but it's absolutely strong enough for a decades long service life.

Oh, yeah, he bought homeowner grade. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, just wasn't clear.

WonkoTheSane said:

In reply to Hasbro :

Thanks for the brand reviews. 

I'm just starting to research the local offerings, but the shop that I've been buying all of my cub stuff from sells Gravely which seems to be well made.  Other locals sell ExMark, which look good as well.   I'm definitely not buying from a box store, though.  I like the local guys and it's worth paying a bit more to be able to pick their brains when I stop in.

I'm sure you see yard care crews all the time in your area. They will know which local shops are the best.

My neighbor mows his lawn with a zero turn.  It cracks me up.  His front yard is like 800 sq ft.  And he doesn't mow the back yard :(

Been through this a few times, thinking about going through it again.....

Background: I have about 1.5 acres of hilly, bumpy terrain with lots of trees and rocks and planters and such to mow around. When we first moved into this house almost 20 years ago, my dad gave me his 80s vintage Wheel Horse tractor with a 42" deck, since they were moving to a condo. I used that for about 5-6 years and got tired of fixing it and decided I wanted something newer and faster. So I sold it and bought a Craftsman tractor with a 25hp motor and 48" deck. It shaved about a half hour off my mowing time, but it turned out to be a total POS that broke every time I looked at it funny.

So, in about 2010 or so, I decided to go zero-turn. Ended up with a Cub Cadet bought from a local dealer (Weingartz, for those in the area). It's a Z-Force 48, a "heavy duty residential" model, it has a fabricated 48" deck, but the rest of it is strictly consumer-grade. Mows fast, evenly, and is even kind of fun. But only took a couple of years before the problems started. One of the issues with any of the modern stuff is all the safety switches. There's one on the seat, there's a reverse lockout that stops the PTO when you back up, there are various ones that won't let the engine turn over unless the parking brake is on, the PTO is off, the seat switch is activated, etc. Well, all of those started failing, one at a time, and nickel-and-diming me. I bypassed what I could and replaced the others. Also, my yard being as rough as it is, the deck and wheels just take a hell of a pounding. It probably doesn't help to have my fat ass weighing the whole thing down, either. The deck is belt driven, and that damn belt comes off at least once per mowing session, and it wears out every single year because it's at such a bad angle when the deck is down. It's a bad design, IMO. The hydros are not servicable, but there are plenty of zerk fittings on the deck and front spindles. Every fall I clean it thoroughly, grease everything, change the oil, remove and sharpen the blades (or replace, as needed), change the air filter, etc. I take good care of it, and it only has like 350 hours, but this year especially, it wants to throw curve balls at me every time I use it. It's getting pretty frustrating.

Anyhow, I'm thinking if I go full commercial, I'll have something that will better be able to handle the pounding that I will give it. And maybe for once I'll be able to just mow my lawn without having to stop and fix my mower.

Of course, part of me has thought about going back to a tractor. It'd be nice to have a blade for moving dirt and snow. And Deere makes them with 4-wheel steering now, so I wouldn't lose much maneuverability.

frenchyd said:

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

I went through this same issue 5 years ago. My decades old Honda rider needed as much maintenance as a new one would cost. Then I looked at the rest of my equipment and that was all pretty shabby or ready to quit. 

Doing the math I decided it was time I accepted my mortality and realize that maybe it was time to let someone else do it.  

He costs me $35-40 a time depending on how many Thursdays  are in the month. The work is fantastic my lawn has never looked so good!  Minus the cost of equipment I figure it costs me about $2 an hour to have him do it.  It used to take me about 2+ hours a week to do plus sharpening time and maintenance. 

Ok 3&1/2 acres is going to cost more. But by not buying new equipment I spent the money on other priorities and freed up a bunch of my time every week. 

 

Sorry, missed this the first time.   At the other end of the spectrum, I'm past the point where I have to buy the cheapest POS I find just to do the job, but I'm still young enough that I'm hoping to use it for at least the next 44 years :) 

From what I'm seeing in my area, they'd charge me somewhere between $150-200 every other week based on a few phone calls.   Assuming I don't kick the bucket soon, that's $1600-2000 per mowing season.   Hopefully the one after this will just be a checkbook!

We went through this a couple of years ago when we had a similarly sized lawn; ended up buying a well-used Exmark Lazer that needed blades and a repair to the deck lift, fixed it  and performed deferred maintenance (easy and not expensive), ran it for a year, and sold it for more than we had into it when we moved.  10/10 would get old commercial mower again.

WonkoTheSane said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to WonkoTheSane :

I went through this same issue 5 years ago. My decades old Honda rider needed as much maintenance as a new one would cost. Then I looked at the rest of my equipment and that was all pretty shabby or ready to quit. 

Doing the math I decided it was time I accepted my mortality and realize that maybe it was time to let someone else do it.  

He costs me $35-40 a time depending on how many Thursdays  are in the month. The work is fantastic my lawn has never looked so good!  Minus the cost of equipment I figure it costs me about $2 an hour to have him do it.  It used to take me about 2+ hours a week to do plus sharpening time and maintenance. 

Ok 3&1/2 acres is going to cost more. But by not buying new equipment I spent the money on other priorities and freed up a bunch of my time every week. 

 

Sorry, missed this the first time.   At the other end of the spectrum, I'm past the point where I have to buy the cheapest POS I find just to do the job, but I'm still young enough that I'm hoping to use it for at least the next 44 years :) 

From what I'm seeing in my area, they'd charge me somewhere between $150-200 every other week based on a few phone calls.   Assuming I don't kick the bucket soon, that's $1600-2000 per mowing season.   Hopefully the one after this will just be a checkbook!

I went through similar calculations when I bought mine. Best quote I got for my yard was $200/month on a year-round contract. Worst was 2x that. The mower dealer in town was running 0% for 48 months so I got the Gravely and a new Stihl trimmer for under $100/month. I hate doing the yard work but the mower cut my time from 2.5 hours on the old one to 45min. Plus it's fun to zoom around on. so the $100/month difference  was well worth it.

MazdaFace said:

99% of the mowers on the market will be more than enough for 99.5% of people. The other .5% will have to pony up for a Scag

used to be Dixie Chopper, but there is a lot of good competition now. My main thing when looking for a mower is the deck design. The small, short height decks just can't handle the taller or wet grasses. Look for something that looks industrial and well built. I went with Dixie Chopper's mid-level mower back in 2008 and literally cut my mowing time in half. In the last 10 years I've put 360 hours on this thing, I've changed the oil every year, replaced blades twice and belts and gearbox fluid once. What once took 4 hours on a 46" Craftsman now takes 1.5-2. so that 360 hours would have been 720+ hours.