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carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
7/8/11 1:33 p.m.

Interestingly I am currently working with 2 couples who are cohabitating after a divorce and both are trying to buy a house together.

Both have separate bedroom situations and sharing certain portions of the house with other portions being the sole property of one or the other of the people.

To say things were tense in both households would be an understatement. I have to constantly listen to one-liners and cuts about the other party.

As to why some people won't go to counselors, well have you ever been to a counselor? I have and they are a waste of time and money. The TV show Frasier is a good example of the hookum way of thinking counselors have to justify their existence.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/8/11 1:47 p.m.

[if you're not in a reading mood, please skip to the last paragraph, as it is the most important thing for you to do]

This is a tough one and we don't have a lot of info to go on. Anything I post is heavily biased from my own personal experience with a divorce involving my two daughters over a 2.5 year time span.

You can try as hard as you want to sever all financial ties right now, but guess what, until you're legally divorced or have a legal financial separation...you ARE NOT financially separated.

And when it comes down to it, they're going to list all the assets and all the debts and split them down the middle. In my case it would have been best to get that over with EARLY before she ran up a LOAD of debt, all the while ensuring her income was below the poverty level.

What's best for your kids is not always visible to those who are surrounded with clouds of emotional uncertainty. What's best for your kids is to have meaningful relationships with their parents. Emotionally happy parents make good folks to have relationships with. Those stuck in a stressfull situation probably don't.

Talk to a therapist, have your kids talk to a therapist.

In my case, there wasn't a chance that cohabitation could work out. I have a feeling it won't work well for you either (but I don't know you).

As to the lease...who cares? Ditch it if you have to. Each of you find a new place to live, and make SURE you get to be with your kids half the time. If that's not happening, have your divorce lawyer (that you've already hired, right? RIGHT!?) file a motion for temporary custody arrangement.

If you don't read anything else in this post, please read this: Talk to a divorce lawyer...no, several of them NOW. Keep talking to them until you find one you trust and get along with. Then hire that person. This should not take more than two weeks. THIS IS MANDATORY!

Clem

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/8/11 1:49 p.m.

Oh...also...

I'm a nice guy by nature. That's my mode in life: be the nice guy and make people happy.

I can honestly say that I made my life and my divorce MUCH harder by being a nice guy. Step back, look at things objectively (this takes friends to slap you around, sometimes) and don't worry about being nice. Protect your relationship with your children.

Clem

scardeal
scardeal HalfDork
7/8/11 1:54 p.m.

My wife works with a marriage and family counselor.

  1. His counselling firm has helped lots of people struggling with their marriage.
  2. My wife and I read 2 of his books, and I can say that they've helped us communicate better just by doing some of the stuff recommended in the books.

With counselors, they can only be effective to the level that the couple is willing to actually take things to heart and try to communicate and implement things. It's like school. 2 people with the same teachers, same curriculum, etc. can come out with wildly different quality of educations depending on how much they participated.

If he does get a divorce, it'd be worthwhile to the OP to get someone to help him sort through the emotional fallout and pain and readjustment that he would be facing.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised that so many people are just telling him to give up on his wife. Call me a fool, but I meant the whole "'till death do us part" line when I got married.

carguy123
carguy123 SuperDork
7/8/11 1:57 p.m.

Speaking of separation of debts. You do realize that a divorce judge has no power to arbitrarily give one debt to you and one to her don't you? Without going through what I'm told is called a Legal Separation of Debt along with the divorce you both are liable for all debts for as long as they are open.

A judge telling you that you don't have to make the car payment is about as legal as me telling you not to make the payments. The splitting up of debts in the divorce decree is more of a moral obligation rather than a legal obligation.

The difference is that in the legal separation of debt they bring the creditor into the agreement and all parties agree. Very few people do this because 1) they don't realize they need to and 2) it costs extra.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/8/11 1:59 p.m.
scardeal wrote: Frankly, I'm a little surprised that so many people are just telling him to give up on his wife. Call me a fool, but I meant the whole "'till death do us part" line.

I meant that too, but when someone (IE, your spouse) changes their mind, you can't just change it back.

You mentioned categories of people above. I was one of the "got married out of apathy" folks. Actually, it had more factors to it than that. When it came down to it, there was NO WAY my ex and I could have made a reasonable decision to get married. We got married for the WRONG reasons. Staying married would not have solved that.

The folks jumping to the "leave now" conclusion are also operating on limited info from the OP and their own experiences and biases. That's human nature.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/8/11 2:02 p.m.
carguy123 wrote: Speaking of separation of debts. You do realize that a divorce judge has no power to arbitrarily give one debt to you and one to her don't you? Without going through what I'm told is called a Legal Separation of Debt along with the divorce you both are liable for all debts for as long as they are open. A judge telling you that you don't have to make the car payment is about as legal as me telling you not to make the payments. The splitting up of debts in the divorce decree is more of a moral obligation rather than a legal obligation. The difference is that in the legal separation of debt they bring the creditor into the agreement and all parties agree. Very few people do this because 1) they don't realize they need to and 2) it costs extra.

This is probably a state-to-state issue. because I can tell you that in my case, yes, in fact, the judge DOES tell you who takes what debt and who takes what asset at the time of the divorce. It gets written in the divorce decree, recorded with the county, and is legally binding.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
7/8/11 2:21 p.m.

Oh...also:

Change all your email, facebook, internet banking, etc passwords YESTERDAY!

My ex paid her phone bill with MY debit card a year into the divorce. The phone company let her do it because that card had been used to pay the account before (when we were married and shared the plan)...it was on file, so why not (I can't fault their logic there...). in the end, the bank sided with me and returned the funds...but these are the things to think about if separating/divorcing.

Clem

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/8/11 2:56 p.m.

Wow guys (and gals) I'm surprised to see this thread still going.

We've decided to not get a divorce. We've started communicating about some things that we've never communicated before and discovered some answers to some issues.

We are going to seek some marriage counseling and my wife is going to seek some individual therapy for some childhood (and possibly later) issues. It seems that some issues from her child hood may be surfacing now that our soon is the same age as she was when the things that seem to be haunting her occurred.

I'm sure some of you will question my motives here, but that's ok. I do appreciate yall's advice and concern.

GRM is a great community. I love yall.

Otto Maddox
Otto Maddox Dork
7/8/11 2:58 p.m.

In reply to m4ff3w:

Great news. Good luck.

petegossett
petegossett SuperDork
7/8/11 3:00 p.m.

Glad to see you're heading toward reconciliation. If nothing else, it should at least save you some money for the Biturbo.

scardeal
scardeal HalfDork
7/8/11 3:03 p.m.

m4ff3w:

That's great news! BTW, I'll send up a few prayers for you and your wife as you try to work things out.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy Dork
7/8/11 3:11 p.m.
m4ff3w wrote: I'm sure some of you will question my motives here, but that's ok. I do appreciate yall's advice and concern. GRM is a great community. I love yall.

I don't think anybody would question trying to make a relationship work, it shows dedication that is truly lacking in today's society. As many others have said, just keep the children in mind; this E36 M3 sucks for them!

pilotbraden
pilotbraden HalfDork
7/8/11 3:14 p.m.

Best of luck.

KATYB
KATYB HalfDork
7/8/11 5:31 p.m.

In reply to m4ff3w:

great news to hear please keep us all posted

dj06482
dj06482 HalfDork
7/8/11 6:54 p.m.

Glad to hear that you're working it out - great news!

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
7/8/11 7:39 p.m.

So we told the guy whose wife cheated to leave and he stayed, now we told the guy whose wife said she no longer loved him the leave and he stayed. Wohoo-perfect record!

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
7/8/11 8:11 p.m.

GRM: relationship enablers?

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/8/11 9:59 p.m.
MrJoshua wrote: So we told the guy whose wife cheated to leave and he stayed, now we told the guy whose wife said she no longer loved him the leave and he stayed. Wohoo-perfect record!

I'm hesitant to post this, but what the hell, I started the thread might as well put it all out there.

Actually, I'll take the heat and fess up. Both were me.

We both thought we had it figured out shortly after that (almost 3 months ago) and then E36 M3 hit an unrelated fan last weekend.

We've since engaged into some long discussions about her and me. I've discovered some things about her past that she was never comfortable telling me or anyone about. Some things that have very negatively impacted her life in way that she is only recently understanding. I don't care (obviously) to go into the details nor am I making excuses for her behavior, but some of her actions/emotions now have... well, I'm not sure how to say what I mean here.

But anyways, she will be starting some individual therapy soon and we will soon start some marriage counseling as well. The woman has some problems, but I still berkeleying love her. We both think we will be happier together - especially if she can get some of these issues resolved.

Oh, and my saying she says she doesn't love me anymore was not exactly what she said, she said "I've felt like a robot these past 10 years," the 10 years implying the time we have been together. In our discussions since then, she has said she was wrong about the past 10 years part and it has actually been since she was 9 when one of the incidents that is leading to her seeking therapy occurred. She says that the more and harder she thinks about it, that feeling has been around since then. So hopefully she can get those issues resolved or something in some individual therapy and we can work out anything else in some marriage counseling.

So I'm sure to catch some hell and maybe I deserve it. But I love the woman, even if she is crazy. I maybe shouldn't have posted here, but I do appreciate everyone's advice (even though I obviously didn't heed most of it) and even more so the thoughts and well wishes.

And hell, Sonic is probably right... its all because I tried to DD a Biturbo. She'll be back on the road in September though. For the first time ever I've had to pay child care this summer - it berkeleying sucks!!

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/8/11 10:01 p.m.

Oh, and bet your ass... if she ever cheats again - her ass is on the curb and I'm on the phone with a divorce lawyer (one who isn't her brother)

I might be stupidly in love, but I ain't no fool.

MitchellC
MitchellC Dork
7/8/11 10:19 p.m.

You are more forgiving than a lot of people, myself included, but best of luck.

geomiata
geomiata Reader
7/9/11 3:10 a.m.

Good for you m4ff3w. Your a real man. I will keep you in my prayers tonight.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
7/9/11 8:42 a.m.

You have waaaay more ability to trust than me. She cheated and you forgave her and now she declared she wants out and you talked her into staying. Are you SURE that her fling ended? You have now also given her the power to toss her willingness to end her commitment to you around as a manipulative tool. She screws up and you beg her to forgive you. If you think counseling will fix your problems you both need to have been in it since she cheated. I wish you luck, but she is a proven liar, and proven liars don't usually stop just because they hurt your feelings.

Lesley
Lesley SuperDork
7/9/11 8:45 a.m.

I disagree. Sometimes people berkeley up. It's part of being human. I dunno if I could trust a cheater again, I guess it would depend on the situation and the person. Let's face it, relationships are really difficult – and the only people who can decide whether or not it's salvageable are the two people involved. And sometimes... it's worth it.

Osterkraut
Osterkraut SuperDork
7/9/11 8:58 a.m.

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