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m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/9/11 9:10 a.m.
MrJoshua wrote: You have waaaay more ability to trust than me. She cheated and you forgave her and now she declared she wants out and you talked her into staying. Are you SURE that her fling ended? You have now also given her the power to toss her willingness to end her commitment to you around as a manipulative tool. She screws up and you beg her to forgive you. If you think counseling will fix your problems you both need to have been in it since she cheated. I wish you luck, but she is a proven liar, and proven liars don't usually stop just because they hurt your feelings.

It wasn't that I talked her into staying, but that's not the point. Relationships aren't always perfect.

And I'm absolutely positive that the affair ended when it did.

She does not have the power to manipulate me. Just because I've forgiven her, doesn't mean I've forgotten or I'm forever at her whim. It's more complicated than my original post said and my choice of words were clouded at the time.

I appreciate your concern and advice.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
7/9/11 9:28 a.m.

In reply to m4ff3w:

It seems like she keeps telling you she wants out, first with her actions and next by actually telling you she wants out. She changed her mind after you talked to her. Its possible she just isn't strong enough to stick to her guns because she does care for you and sees that it hurts you and you really want her to stay. If you stay, do get counseling and get it very very soon. Group and individual. A good counselor should be able to figure out what your wife really wants without emotions clouding the judgement. You don't want to be in a relationship that she doesn't want to be in.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/9/11 9:36 a.m.
MrJoshua wrote: In reply to m4ff3w: A good counselor should be able to figure out what your wife really wants without emotions clouding the judgement. You don't want to be in a relationship that she doesn't want to be in.

I completely agree, thus the reason for the post about cohabitation.

But we've sincerely learned some things that could be the reasons for this recent behavior - these are the only two incidents like this in over 10 years. We are going to seek counseling for us and individual therapy for her.

Racer1ab
Racer1ab Reader
7/9/11 9:43 a.m.

It's funny, guys on here will devote hundreds and even thousands of hours to fixing up old E36 M3boxes, but won't put that much effort into salvaging a relationship.

OP, you sound like a pretty intelligent and reasonable guy, I'm glad you and your girl are seeking a resolution rather than just packing it in.

BTW, I've worked in predominantly female environments for the last few years, and I bet the "I'd leave the bitch if she ever cheated" guys would be surprised what their girls do when they know their men aren't watching.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
7/9/11 9:54 a.m.
Racer1ab wrote: BTW, I've worked in predominantly female environments for the last few years, and I bet the "I'd leave the bitch if she ever cheated" guys would be surprised what their girls do when they know their men aren't watching.

Oh that totally bolsters up the confidence level, right there.

Racer1ab
Racer1ab Reader
7/9/11 10:11 a.m.

Trust me on that one, the guys who think they have control over their women don't have a clue.

Lesley
Lesley SuperDork
7/9/11 10:53 a.m.

That sentence is true on so many levels.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon SuperDork
7/9/11 3:38 p.m.

It works both ways, too.

FWIW, way back at the beginning of this thread I was under the impression there was no evidence of adultery. Now I understand there is. You want to stay around, help her financially and help her finish school thus giving tacit approval to be walked on like that, well that's your business. No way in hell would I stay.

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
7/9/11 4:12 p.m.
Racer1ab wrote: It's funny, guys on here will devote hundreds and even thousands of hours to fixing up old E36 M3boxes, but won't put that much effort into salvaging a relationship.

Yes, but you don't really need the car's cooperation in order to fix it. There are very few cars that simply can't be fixed with sufficient time and/or money... except maybe a Porsche.

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
7/9/11 4:13 p.m.
m4ff3w wrote: She does not have the power to manipulate me.

You are a guy. She is a woman. Umm... that pretty much sums it up.

KATYB
KATYB HalfDork
7/9/11 5:13 p.m.
Salanis wrote:
m4ff3w wrote: She does not have the power to manipulate me.
You are a guy. She is a woman. Umm... that pretty much sums it up.

oh comeon we are not that manipulative!!!

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
7/9/11 5:20 p.m.
Racer1ab wrote: It's funny, guys on here will devote hundreds and even thousands of hours to fixing up old E36 M3boxes, but won't put that much effort into salvaging a relationship.

Lol-if relationships were like cars then most of us would have a reliable "Daily Driver" wife, and a stable of not so reliable/really fun/require lots of work mistresses to play with on the weekends. After realizing this it dawned on me that OP dailys a BiTurbo so maybe his life IS just like his relationship with cars.

xd
xd Reader
7/9/11 5:58 p.m.

Your an idiot a complete berkeleying idiot. Go get tested today. So next time you kiss her try not to think about the other things that have been in her mouth let alone other places. So this was the second time? Dude your doormat.

KATYB
KATYB HalfDork
7/9/11 6:29 p.m.

xd your a moron.... seriously..... if he is trying to save a promise he made before god to love forever in good and bad and sickness and in health and your giving him issues. all meanwhile probably cheating on your own girl... (assuming you have one altho id be surprised if you did)

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/9/11 6:42 p.m.
xd wrote: Your an idiot a complete berkeleying idiot. Go get tested today. So next time you kiss her try not to think about the other things that have been in her mouth let alone other places. So this was the second time? Dude your doormat.

You, and everyone else, are certainly entitled to your opinions. However, I am not a doormat. Yes, there was a case of infidelity but that has hasn't reoccurred. Sure, I wish it didn't happen. But I'm not going to end my marriage because she berkeleyed up for one brief time. No, I won't forget it and if it reoccurs it isn't something I will be able to forgive again.

Think what you will of me and my decisions, doesn't matter much to me. I came asking for opinions on the situation and I got those. I didn't say I had to like them or the majority opinion would be binding.

Salanis
Salanis SuperDork
7/9/11 6:59 p.m.
KATYB wrote:
Salanis wrote:
m4ff3w wrote: She does not have the power to manipulate me.
You are a guy. She is a woman. Umm... that pretty much sums it up.
oh comeon we are not that manipulative!!!

I was more implying that we men are that manipulatable.

KATYB
KATYB HalfDork
7/9/11 7:01 p.m.

In reply to Salanis: oh lol well ok cant argue or agree have never dated one so dont know.

MitchellC
MitchellC Dork
7/9/11 7:29 p.m.
Racer1ab wrote: BTW, I've worked in predominantly female environments for the last few years, and I bet the "I'd leave the bitch if she ever cheated" guys would be surprised what their girls do when they know their men aren't watching.

I wouldn't quite say that I was surprised. Remember that while dogs are outwardly menacing, it's the cats that kill for fun.

geomiata
geomiata Reader
7/9/11 8:44 p.m.
KATYB wrote: xd your a moron.... seriously

+1

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
7/9/11 9:43 p.m.
m4ff3w wrote: Wow guys (and gals) I'm surprised to see this thread still going. We've decided to not get a divorce. We've started communicating about some things that we've never communicated before and discovered some answers to some issues. We are going to seek some marriage counseling and my wife is going to seek some individual therapy for some childhood (and possibly later) issues. It seems that some issues from her child hood may be surfacing now that our soon is the same age as she was when the things that seem to be haunting her occurred.

I am hoping with every fiber of my being that your case is going to turn out differently than my own. Good luck!

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
7/9/11 9:53 p.m.
Racer1ab wrote: Trust me on that one, the guys who think they have control over their women don't have a clue.

All I can add to that is that men who want nothing but "control" over a woman (IMO) eventually get what they deserve. Just my .02.

Whether he's right or wrong about his desire to reconcile with this woman, it at least sounds like m4ff3w is actually treating the woman as a human being, instead of a piece of property.

I say this as someone whose ex tried to "take him to the cleaners". But..she didn't do it because she was a woman..she did it because she was a shiny happy person. Shallowness & irrational hatred know no gender.

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
7/9/11 10:10 p.m.

Thanks for the kind words.

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
7/9/11 10:18 p.m.
m4ff3w wrote: Thanks for the kind words.

No prob, dude..you've got a hard "row to hoe", regardless of the final outcome. I'm wishing you well.

SVreX
SVreX SuperDork
7/10/11 12:14 p.m.

Keep up the good work, m4ff3w.

Sure are a lot of hypocrites here.

"She broke her word, therefore doesn't deserve forgiveness". Ummm, last time I checked, we have likely ALL broken our word, and NONE of us deserves forgiveness. That's what forgiveness IS- unearned and undeserved.

Oxford Dictionary: "to grant free pardon and to give up all claim on account of an offense or debt".

And frankly, a man who is more concerned about what she may have put in her mouth than in how he can begin to forgive her has probably put some things in his own that he would never admit to. It's obvious by what is coming out.

What we DESERVE and have EARNED is judgement.

Forgiveness is much harder, and much better.

Good job, m4ff3w.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua SuperDork
7/10/11 12:39 p.m.

Forgiving someone for wronging you is not the same as continuing to allow them to be in a position to do the same. So far she has shown poor commitment to this relationship through some of the most offensive actions you can take in a relationship. Getting tested is a great idea and should have been done as soon as she cheated. Serious work on the future of the relationship should have started when she cheated. So far I am hearing about STARTING counseling now instead of having started back when. IIRC there were plans for serious counseling then. I see no problem with fixing relationships, I just see big problems with one person staying while the other does not change.

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