If a Bolt is on the covered vehicles list, there's a TON of cash on the hood for those right now. I'm hearing chatter that they can be had at $20k OTD or less - just have to figure out where the Electrify America station is between Cincinnati and Detroit.
In reply to szeis4cookie (Forum Supporter) :
I think Bolts have a fairly low charging speed, though. Not a big deal if you're hitting a fast charger once a month to visit your parents, but it would get old pretty fast commuting to work.
Apparently Bolts can charge at up to 55 kW using the CCS standard. The Model 3 can pull 250 kW if it's at one of the newest Superchargers, 150 kW at the more common ones.
Looking on Plugshare for CCS chargers that can handle at least 50kW, there's not much in the Cincinnati-Detroit I-75 corridor. A single charger in Lima, OH. A 25 kW charger in Findlay. Another just north of Toledo. Best option is a cluster of 6 high speed CCS chargers at a WalMart in Dayton, but then it's over 200 miles to Detroit. That's doable, although you'll probably want a vehicle that charges faster than a Bolt to avoid a really long stop. That means VW or Ford. Remember, you don't need to charge up to 100%, you only need to charge enough to get you to the next charger.
Keep in mind that there's a difference between a single charger (ie, one car at a time) and a cluster (anything from 1-30 cars) when you're looking at a map of charging stations. That Supercharger station in Lima has 8 chargers, so even if one is down there are 7 others. Then there are a total of 18 in Toledo.
So that corridor is not quite ready for cars that depend on CCS charging. In this particular situation today, the most viable EV is the Tesla. That will change as the other networks build out.
In reply to 84FSP :
I opted out of Motus for this year at my place of work but I suspect opting out won't be allowed in the next couple of years. I'm in a similar situation as you in that I drive normally 25k or more per year for work. Bought a Model S 2 years ago and it has been fantastic. I travel to Detroit frequently as well and between the Toledo superchargers and destination charging at hotels, it has been a non issue traveling from Columbus. I used to spend a minimum of 400 and a max of 700 per month just in fuel for a Lexus GS350. To give you an idea I use an app called Tessie to track drives in my Tesla and it accounts for charging costs at home and also if you use a supercharger. The app shows that in the last 30 days I have driven 2618 miles which cost me $96.91 in electricity. My home rate is .11 per kwh and I do have free supercharging but really don't have to use it that often.
Just curious, does this Motus program, which seems to expect a new car purchase offer any purchase help? What I mean are there any perks like access to buyer discounts like X-plan, S-plan or what ever the friends/family/employee pricing?
So much of the value here seems to hinge on reducing depreciation and one way to do that is to buy as low as possible. Current low inventory levels will make it hard to get incentives and discounts otherwise.
In reply to John Welsh :
No. Motus doesn't set the 4 year old car policy, that's his company. Motus is just a way to flatten out mileage expenses for companies. You get a base rate based upon your prior utilization and then you get a reduced per mile rate. In my case the rate I heard was something like .22 per mile or something similar. It works out to be less money in your pocket without the company having to go through the hassle of providing a car allowance.
Dude, you're driving around Detroit. Step up your game.
(dealer in Dearborn)
No Time said:I'll leave this here:
100k warranty and a hatchback
I mean, my comment has already been made for me.
No Time said:I'll leave this here:
100k warranty and a hatchback
They are on the list. My neighbors is low 12's after a tune on an otherwise stock car. Interior fit and finish was surprisingly good.
mattm said:In reply to 84FSP :
I opted out of Motus for this year at my place of work but I suspect opting out won't be allowed in the next couple of years. I'm in a similar situation as you in that I drive normally 25k or more per year for work. Bought a Model S 2 years ago and it has been fantastic. I travel to Detroit frequently as well and between the Toledo superchargers and destination charging at hotels, it has been a non issue traveling from Columbus. I used to spend a minimum of 400 and a max of 700 per month just in fuel for a Lexus GS350. To give you an idea I use an app called Tessie to track drives in my Tesla and it accounts for charging costs at home and also if you use a supercharger. The app shows that in the last 30 days I have driven 2618 miles which cost me $96.91 in electricity. My home rate is .11 per kwh and I do have free supercharging but really don't have to use it that often.
This is hugely useful info. I was just shopping used S and 3 options.... I haven't really been able to figure out what the superchargers cost and if people actually use them for a full charge or just a 70-100mile bump till the overnight charge. I'm gonna check out the Lima chargers and the chargers at the Hilton Garden inn in Troy next week on my office run. I just need to gt out and drive one to see if I get the numb feeling or the love feeling. For gearheads in Teslas there seems to be nothing in between...
Supercharger cost answer: it's actually hard because there are different rules in each state. I seem to recall it averages about 29c/kWh.
You don't usually bother with a full charge. For one, the charge rate slows dramatically as you get over 80%. Second, it's more expensive and less convenient to charge on the road than it is at your destination so really you just want enough charge to get to where you're going. It's not like a gas car where refueling has to be a discrete event, it's best done by the car when you're off doing something else.
As for numb vs love - it can be both. The car will not necessarily overwhelm you with sensation and feedback and pleasing noises. This is not a Miata or an E36 BMW with the tingle of a beautifully balanced straight six. It will just do its job without making a fuss. Some people don't like that, some appreciate it.
As a road trip car, it's remarkably like my E39 M5. It has that same effortless feel - but it doesn't make cool noises when you decide you want to get rowdy. Well, it does, they're just not tame explosions. They're more like sci-fi sound effects.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Gracias senior - this is why we come to the hive. Will let everyone know what replaces the Caddy in the stable. Sooooo many choices...
In reply to 84FSP :
I have stayed at that Hilton in Troy and have never had an issue. There is also a less well known charger in the garage at the Marriot in Troy that would require you to bring your mobile charger with you. You can check plugshare for those details or just post here and I can help. For your travel you won't be filling the car up at the superchargers, just topping off to get to the destination. I believe the superchargers in Toledo are .28 per kWh but again, 15 minutes isn't going to cost a bunch. There are also superchargers in Michigan with more being built out even now. I have traveled the length of the state up to Traverse City and it has never been an issue.
In reply to mattm :
This is intriguing stuff. The Cincy to Detroit leg was literally the deciding factor against EV until this thread.
I just wouldn't care to have to stop someplace and wait around to charge. What if there's already someone there? The infrastructure for charging just isn't really there yet for electric cars to be more than city cars. When the batteries can charge inside of 10 minutes and there are charging stations to the same degree as gas stations, then it'll be a viable option
Dangit, foiled again. I was here for the company rental Motus powered car. I E36 M3 you not.
docwyte said:I just wouldn't care to have to stop someplace and wait around to charge. What if there's already someone there? The infrastructure for charging just isn't really there yet for electric cars to be more than city cars. When the batteries can charge inside of 10 minutes and there are charging stations to the same degree as gas stations, then it'll be a viable option
Tesla has built the infrastructure for Tesla's to be long distance cars. I understand your position, but in 2021 you are incorrect. I put double the average mileage on my Tesla and it is a non issue..
docwyte said:I just wouldn't care to have to stop someplace and wait around to charge. What if there's already someone there? The infrastructure for charging just isn't really there yet for electric cars to be more than city cars. When the batteries can charge inside of 10 minutes and there are charging stations to the same degree as gas stations, then it'll be a viable option
Did you read my original post about the charging on this route? 15 minutes. That's a pee and stretch stop if you actually pay attention to how long it really takes. And there are 8 stations there, so 8 cars at a time. If that doesn't work, you just boogie down the road to the 18 stations in Toledo. You know how many are occupied before you get there because the car knows how many are occupied.
And of course, you don't have to stop for fuel at each end of the trip. Overnight, the car magically refuels without you having to do anything. So there's one "free" stop per day. Or, if you can't manage that, you have the car feed while you eat. Almost every person has to eat at least one meal a day.
I've got two friends who have done (or are currently doing) cross country EV road trips and have yet to be inconvenienced by full chargers or having to stop. I've done some interstate travel with mine. The infrastructure for the most popular EVs is indeed already there. It's not there for 100% of traffic to be EVs but of course that won't happen instantly. As EVs become more and more popular, charging stations will take over from gas stations. But right now, there's a good balance between infrastructure and demand.
84FSP said:In reply to mattm :
This is intriguing stuff. The Cincy to Detroit leg was literally the deciding factor against EV until this thread.
Spend some time on the website ABRP, a better route planner. It gives you lots of variables to tweak like starting charge and expected average wh/mile. It works great as a supplement to the Tesla navigation. I'm sure you will become even more comfortable with Tesla and what you can achieve today.
Vote for the Stinger.
Stinger makes a lot of sense, but also don't rule out the current Volkswagen GLI. Torquey, fun, good stereo, decent seats and an excellent cruising range.
mattm said:84FSP said:In reply to mattm :
This is intriguing stuff. The Cincy to Detroit leg was literally the deciding factor against EV until this thread.
Spend some time on the website ABRP, a better route planner. It gives you lots of variables to tweak like starting charge and expected average wh/mile. It works great as a supplement to the Tesla navigation. I'm sure you will become even more comfortable with Tesla and what you can achieve today.
I'm watching a variety of options and want to do some test drives later this week. I am a touch analog in my like cars and simplicity but am hoping to enjoy 3.1 sec 0-60 enough to put away other concerns. The potential of a nice quiet mobile office on wheels is intriguing vs the current caddy that is too loud windows up for a phone call on ear buds.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
15 minutes doesn't charge 100% and is 4 times as long as it takes to fuel up a ICE car 100%. I can recall pictures of long lines for chargers being posted on holiday weekends. The infrastructure still isn't there yet, although it's coming along...
docwyte said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
15 minutes doesn't charge 100% and is 4 times as long as it takes to fuel up a ICE car 100%. I can recall pictures of long lines for chargers being posted on holiday weekends. The infrastructure still isn't there yet, although it's coming along...
You don't have to charge 100%, you just have to charge enough to get to the next charging point. Charging to 100% is actually a bad idea, it's much slower than charging to 80-90%. I have friends who have done multi-day cross country drives and I have documented one exhaustively. They report that in the real world, the charging time is not the limiting factor in their stops. For example, on the first day they covered 870 miles and were stopped for a total of 85 minutes over a 17 hour day. I know that everyone on the GRM forum is secretly a Cannonball winner, but that's still pretty darn good.
And remember that EVs only have to charge once they've used up range. Most of the time, they're charging at their home base. So the infrastructure can be smaller than you might think if you base it on gas stations, as an ICE cannot refuel without one.
Gas lines happen with ICE vehicles too. Remember that one clickbait picture of lines at one spot on one weekend is not equivalent to an infrastructure that's not up to the task. And also remember that you haven't seen one of those pictures for a while while the networks have grown. I know there are reasons why we haven't seen mass migrations on a holiday weekend over the past year, but I've seen the changes in the charging infrastructure around here in the past year and it's pretty dramatic.
I'll also vote Tesla.
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