Does anybody know about horse stabling businesses? LM: Sanity check vague business idea

No, we didn't buy a horse (phew).

My wife is slowly building up a business a few timezones to the East and eventually, we'll end up having to move. We're not 100% sure when the move is going to happen, but we've started scouting areas and more importantly, houses. One of the places that appeals to us has been a working horse farm for a long time. Like, pre-Civil War long time, if I understood it correctly.

Now, I don't have any interest in starting to stable horses, but we were thinking that maybe we could use it to give someone who wanted to get started in this business a leg up, rent out the horsey part of the property to them so they can start building a business? From memory, there is a guest/stable hand house that could be part of the rental package.

Bonus for us would be that we'd get the lawn eaten for free and get some additional income to offset the slightly-higher-than-100%-comfortable price of the place. Plus it'll help diversify our income streams, which would help wean us off our over-reliance on my income.

Over to you guys to pick this apart. And no, the property isn't large enough to put a racetrack on . 

The best and fastest way to make a small fortune in the horse industry is to start with a large one.

I grew up on horse farms and have no desire to do so again.

My brother is a country veterinarian so this is his position.  YOU CAN'T GIVE AWAY HORSES NOW.  TOO EXPENSIVE TO FEED FOR MOST FolKS.    (He litetally has 4 or 6 calls per week of people looking to give horses away for free)  PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD HORSES USUALLY HAVE THE MONEY TO BUY THEIR OWN LAND.  THE REST ARE LOOKING FOR PLACES TO ALLOW THEM TO DUMP OFF HORSES FOR FREE.  VERY VERY VERY FEW CAN AFFORD TO PAY TO BOARD HORSES...THOSE WHO CAN EXPECT FULL SERVICE STABLES.

INVEST IN A BUGGY WHIP FACTORY FOR AN EASIER WAY TO MAKE MONEY.

I knew I would get some useful answers here .

To clarify, we are not looking to run a full service stable ourselves. If anything we'd consider renting part of the property out to someone who wants to do that. But the comments so far very much suggest that I'd be chasing them for the rent more than anything else.

And yes, gift horses and mouths come to mind. I'd rather not end up with a bunch of free horses and the vet bills that come with them.

We're building a barn now for (just) my wife's horse, and he'll likely end up with a pasture buddy to keep him company in the process.

Part of the reason we're (actually she) is doing this, is that folks who board horses have been, in our experience, flakes who got into it thinking they'd be able to do it to cover the cost of keeping their own horses that they could just barely afford.

And then things happen (like in every case so far) there's a divorce involving the couple doing the boarding...

Everyone knew that you lose money with horses and they all wondered how she did do well.   

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Crundwell

Like a boat only horses can't swim.

In reply to Karacticus :

My brother seconds the flakiness of horse owners.  He boarded a few times and it was a pain in the arse with them showing up at all hours wanting to see their steeds.  Drove him nuts.  FWIW you need about 5 acres of good pasture per horse.

We bought our own horse farm, in part, because we couldn’t handle the flakiness of stable owners. We’ve tried boarding a few horses but it always ends up being more trouble than it’s worth. 

I think you’re correct in thinking you’ll spend more time chasing your rent money than anything else. Worst case your renter leaves you with a bunch of horses that need to be rehomed.  While going through that process they’ll need constant care and feeding. If you’re stretched thin to cover the cost of the place this may put you under.

Well, the place is at the top end of our budget, and that makes me nervous. But we're talking about buying fewer car parts, not getting turfed out, if we can't get a side income from the place.

Interesting comment re the size of the pasture needed. I don't have the details of the place in front of me right now but the 5 acres/horse suggest that it wouldn't support more than 3 horses anyway (IIRC the place is about 16 acres in size and a small part of that is wooded, too). That doesn't sound like a viable business.

And yes, as much as I like animals, I really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of abandoned horses. Not that we wouldn't care for them well (we would), but I really don't want to get stuck with the vet and other bills for that.

I can't be the only one who read the thread title as "horse stabbing business"

So I clicked. Disappointed in the thread but my faith in humanity a little restored.

OTOH the babies are kinda cute.  I helped foal this little filly last month out at my moms’ place.  She’s worth around 50K btw. (If she manages to grow up and not stick a leg in a groundhog hole, or run through a fence, or get colic, or a million other things that beset these cute but really dumb creatures)

Jumper K Balls said:

I can't be the only one who read the thread title as "horse stabbing business"

So I clicked. Disappointed in the thread but my faith in humanity a little restored.

Oh lord, me too.

I trained Standardbreds for 12 years, worked on 50 racetracks. That's me in my avatar, back in the early 80s.

I left the horse business, just work on cats and dogs now, and life's a lot better. When you have horses, the commitment is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you're boarding them, that's your commitment.

Enough said.

If horses fit in a space then motorcycle probably will too.  You will make more money cleaning it up, splashing around some orange and black paint, and renting out parking spaces. 

In reply to BoxheadTim :

Re: pasture size.  5 acres is for primary pasture feeding.  Can get by with less but have increasing need for supply of fresh hay.  And horses require additional feed need beyond just pasture regardless of size of pasture.  Especially in winter when pasture is dormant.

15 Acres gives you a nice size for a rallycross site.  I'd bet the local SCCA chapter would pay $1,000 per for 6-8 events a year.

Just a thought.

Having been around horses my whole life I personally run as fast as I could in the other direction.

But it seems as people get older they want to be around the romantic notion of having horses in the back yard, until you have to doctor some horse that is sick around the clock, dress absessed feet, Vet bills etc.

My cliffnotes..

If you are going to rent out the property to a third party I would tell them they need to have a 24hr caretaker on the property, Have some sort of manure and fly management in place, have an evacuation plan, get two months rent upfront.

I would contact some of the large animal vets in the area and see if they know and can vouch for the person wanting to rent the property.

If done right you can make a couple bucks but anything over breaking even is a plus. 

If there is a local horse track around maybe there is a trainer who needs space to lay up horses but usually they require some equipment like barns, arenas and hot walkers.

In reply to Floating Doc :

Loved my Standardbreds and Standard/Belgian crosses

Oh, And one plus is if its a "Working Farm" there may be some Tax benefits, Ask your tax people if there is anything you can write off.

Growing up in the late 1970's, my parents rented our horse farm to a woman who ran a riding program for what one now would call special needs children and adults, before such riding programs really existed.  We had 4 horses at the time, and she used some of those horses as well as her own - I think we had up to 14 there at one point.  I expect the program took care of the space, maintenance, and staff.  I don't know if she paid rent or not, but now days, certainly could.  We donated our time as desired.  I enjoyed it as a kid.  It was great to be exposed to that environment.  

MulletTruck said:

If there is a local horse track around maybe there is a trainer who needs space to lay up horses but usually they require some equipment like barns, arenas and hot walkers.

 

Several of the larger properties we're eyeing have barns at least, often with horse stalls.

But all the feedback I'm getting does suggest that the real advice I should take is "run the other direction" .

I come from a family of horse people - my mom and both sisters are/were big time into it and SWMBO rode and worked in a stable as a teenager. My parents have 3 horses now at their place.

Prior to moving to their current piece of property ~10 years ago, my mom had a series of different boarding arrangements with varying levels of associated cost/PITA factor. First she was boarding at a somewhat established and well organized stable, which included decent riding facilities and basic care for the horse. Costs were constantly on the rise until this ultimately became financially unsustainable. Then, she found an arrangement with a local dude who owned some horse property and a collection of "pasture ornaments" he had mostly lost interest in caring after. So, in exchange for cheap board, my mom did all the daily care and chores for her horses as well as his. Financially, this was much more palatable, but it also meant driving over and spending several hours in both the morning and evening doing all the work that needed to be done. 

It sounds like what you're after is something along the lines of the latter arrangement, with the added benefits of living quarters and allowing the potential renter to sub-lease and make some income off of it as well. I see several potential perils here. For one, horses are a major potential liability, both in terms of the harm they can potentially do unto others and the harm others can do unto them. I'd be very wary of what legal risk you are putting yourself at as the property owner. Two, who gets to decide what horses you're allowing on the property, you or your horse person renter? Horses are herd animals and there are definitely some interesting group dynamics than can play out between them. Do you feel that you know enough to judge a potential "problem child" that someone might introduce to the herd, or are you relying  solely on someone else's judgment? What happens if you have to "evict" someone? And do not underestimate the amount of work these animals require. My mom spends probably 3-4 hours per day on horse care and that's a 365 day per year job. She doesn't really get to take many vacations because it's extremely difficult to find someone she trusts willing to do the care when she's gone. Do you get stuck doing the care if your horse person goes on vacation? Even beyond the daily care, there's going to be a significant amount of property maintenance required - who takes care of that? 

I could keep going for a while, but suffice to say I think there's a lot of potential risk here for relatively little upside. Horses are like race cars, in that there is very little financial sense in involving yourself in the sport unless it's something you're passionate about. 

In reply to Furious_E :

+1,000

As far as legal liability...horse gets out of pasture and gets hit by car.  as land owner you're gonna get sued by horse owner as well as car owner.

Someone sneaks on your property and is injured by horse.  Your maintaining in legal terms an "attractive nuisance."  Trespasser is gonna sue you.

Horse gets hock caught in a fence and has to be put down.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know it sounds attractive.  Just too much downside IMHO.

Better idea is stand in a steaming pile of manure while tearing up $100 bills.

Ovid_and_Flem wrote:

In reply to Furious_E :

+1,000

As far as legal liability...horse gets out of pasture and gets hit by car.  as land owner you're gonna get sued by horse owner as well as car owner.

Someone sneaks on your property and is injured by horse.  Your maintaining in legal terms an "attractive nuisance."  Trespasser is gonna sue you.

Horse gets hock caught in a fence and has to be put down.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know it sounds attractive.  Just too much downside IMHO.

Better idea is stand in a steaming pile of manure while tearing up $100 bills.

We had a horse when I was growing up and this is a big part of why we eventually sold him.  He would occasionally jump a fence.  You know how sometimes a dog will slip out and LOVE it, and just run around at top speed like a lunatic?  It was just like that except MUCH bigger, and I believe considerably faster than most dogs.  This only happened a couple of times but my mother was concerned he'd run out onto the highway a mile or so away and cause an accident.  Also, he would bite... but that is another story.