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1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
10/20/20 8:23 a.m.
frenchyd said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I was born in 73, so I have no recollection of the Vietnam war, yet I was humbled and moved to tears at the memorial.

It shows that you have an adaptive sense of emotion.  I know people who could look at things like that and say, "yeah that's a shame... what's for lunch?"  It doesn't make them bad people, in fact, it makes them part of what makes the human population wonderful.  I can't.  I feel the stories, think about their families, wonder how they died.

I think it's part of what my empath tendencies do.  I think it may just be how brains are wired differently.  Some people don't have brains that think in those ways and some do.

I deliberately won't go to places like the Vietnam memorial. I feel like my father a combat veteran  of WW2 does about memorials. 
Why glorify the horror?  

Because we must never forget. 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”  -  George Santayana

Duke
Duke MegaDork
10/20/20 8:40 a.m.
frenchyd said:
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I was born in 73, so I have no recollection of the Vietnam war, yet I was humbled and moved to tears at the memorial.

I deliberately won't go to places like the Vietnam memorial. I feel like my father a combat veteran  of WW2 does about memorials. 
Why glorify the horror?  

You're not glorifying the horror.  You're memorializing those who went through it.

 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/20/20 9:02 a.m.

My father is a civil war historian, so I grew up going to Civil War battlefields all over the east coast. So while I am rather emphatic, historical places are somewhat numb to me simply due to familiarity.  Plus having been taught the severe consequences of war from an early age, I am sometimes confused why the ultimate sacrifice affects others so suddenly.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
10/20/20 9:21 a.m.

Just south of me is the Andersonville National Historic site. It was the location of one of the worst Confederate prisons, a place where captured union soldiers were herded into an open stockade enclosure with no shelter, no sanitation, no fresh water, and almost no food. It was so bad that the managing military staff was publicly tried and hung as war criminals directly after the war ended.

It has since been turned into a memorial for all POWs as well as memorializing the prisoners who were held there. States from all over put up monuments after the civil war to honor their citizens that died there. There is a difference in the air there, a weight. It almost feels like the earth is more solid under your feet. I've seen people react to it without knowing anything about the site.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
10/20/20 10:04 a.m.

Most of these places affect me emotionally to one extent or another. The 9/11 memorials in New York, Pennsylvania, and the Pentagon. The Gettysburg battlefield, the various war memorials in Washington. But the most recent one was here:

Standing underneath a full-scale Saturn V rocket at Kennedy Space Center, and just taking in what a massive accomplishment it was to put people on the moon, and the sacrifices that went into it, I got pretty emotional.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
10/20/20 10:21 a.m.

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

Only the commandant of Andersonville was hanged.  If you want to study the epitome of a sham trial, read up on Wirtz's trial.

 If there are spirits or ghosts anywhere on planet earth, Andersonville and Auschwitz are 2 of the places they will be.  

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter)
ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
10/20/20 11:58 a.m.
spitfirebill said:

In reply to ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) :

Only the commandant of Andersonville was hanged.  If you want to study the epitome of a sham trial, read up on Wirtz's trial.

 If there are spirits or ghosts anywhere on planet earth, Andersonville and Auschwitz are 2 of the places they will be.  

my mistake, you are correct. Been a while since I read the history on the trial.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa SuperDork
10/20/20 12:11 p.m.
jharry3 said:
Mr_Asa said:
Datsun310Guy said:

I don't know any names on the Vietnam Wall in DC but I shed tears at the monument and what artifacts families had left.  Same thing in Oklahoma City.  It does get emotional.   
 

 

When I was stationed at DC I volunteered for the wall cleaning detail a couple times.  When we were cleaning I noticed someone had kissed one of the names.  I took a quick picture and cleaned that section.  At a later date I noticed someone had again kissed that name.  I took a slightly better picture that time.

I've wondered about both of those people so many times.

I would have had a really hard time washing it a 2nd time...  

It was a solid 8 months minimum since I had been there.  I was ok with it because whoever it was obviously came by semi-regularly.  They weren't forgotten on this side of the wall

I was also a lot more immature than I am now.  I recognized what it meant, but it didn't truly process on an emotional level.  I've lost people since then and understand it a bit more.

thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter)
thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
10/20/20 12:14 p.m.

I've been to Antietam too. I'm not usually a very emotional person but that place got me. It's surreal walking through Bloody Lane, where 5500 people died badly. It's really not a very big place to hold that many dead people. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa SuperDork
10/20/20 12:21 p.m.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Most of these places affect me emotionally to one extent or another. The 9/11 memorials in New York, Pennsylvania, and the Pentagon. The Gettysburg battlefield, the various war memorials in Washington. But the most recent one was here:

Standing underneath a full-scale Saturn V rocket at Kennedy Space Center, and just taking in what a massive accomplishment it was to put people on the moon, and the sacrifices that went into it, I got pretty emotional.

Did you do the Atlantis tour while you were there?  The way they let you into the complex and that first view of the shuttle.  Damn.  I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't been, because it is totally worth it.  To get a sense, here's the best passage describing a shuttle launch I've ever read https://hawkfeather.com/rockets/callahan.html The feeling you get reading that is similar to the feeling you get with that first view of the shuttle

The memorial for the Challenger and Columbia were also incredibly moving in a completely different manner.  Challenger on the left, Columbia on the right

 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/20/20 1:17 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago (Forum Supporter) said:

I've been to Antietam too. I'm not usually a very emotional person but that place got me. It's surreal walking through Bloody Lane, where 5500 people died badly. It's really not a very big place to hold that many dead people. 

Or standing at the top (or bottom) of Little Round Top at Gettysburg and marveling at how anyone could consider ordering men to charge against that position. I would imagine a similar feeling looking out over the trenches are Verdun.  Or from the German positions at Normandy.  Where courage and madness intersect. 

Aaron_King
Aaron_King PowerDork
10/20/20 2:44 p.m.

My father was stationed in Germany in the mid 80's, I was in middle school.  We lived in northern Germany and went to Bergen Belsen one weekend.  The only things left of the camp were the concrete pads and walkways and I distinctly remember it being eerily quiet and everyone was talking in whispers, you could feel that something of a large magnitude had happened there.

My dad, brother and I have gone to Gettysburg and Shilo, we had relatives at both of those battles and again I could just feel a weight.  

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
10/20/20 2:54 p.m.

I've felt it at a lot of places. Mesa Verde. The Arizona Memorial, the Parthenon, The Coliseum. There's a lot of energy in those places. 

ddavidv
ddavidv PowerDork
10/20/20 3:37 p.m.

Flight 93 memorial, last year. I had to step off to the side for a few moments. I've never been that deeply affected by a 'place'.

I want to go to the 9/11 memorial in NYC but I don't think I could make it through.

Weirdly, I would like to visit Auschwitz. I feel like I owe it to those people to recognize their sacrifice.

Recon1342
Recon1342 Dork
10/20/20 4:01 p.m.
frenchyd said:

I deliberately won't go to places like the Vietnam memorial. I feel like my father a combat veteran  of WW2 does about memorials. 
Why glorify the horror?  

I'm a combat veteran of Iraq, with 23 months in-country. I will always go. I also want you to go; not to glorify the horror, but to remember that the young men and women who died were real people, and to help your children remember that war has a very real cost, and it is paid in blood. Remember it when you vote, so that someone's friend, brother, father, or son is not sacrificed for anything less than a truly worthy cause. The costs of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan were borne by ~50,000 people, both killed and wounded. That is 0.01% of the US population. There aren't enough of us to be heard. We need you to understand and help, because war is the last thing a combat veteran wants...

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
10/20/20 4:58 p.m.

Pilzen in the Czech Republic on the 50th year of its liberation by the US Army.

Parade with all the Vets and Vet Jeeps + army Trucks.....!

We screwed up and did not go the next 60 miles to Prague and let the Russians "liberate" Prague , and soon put in a Commie government  , which lasted over 40 years.....

And the Space shuttle sitting in a parking lot behind Staples  after it "landed" at LAX ....

The World has always been interesting  !

kazoospec
kazoospec UberDork
10/20/20 5:49 p.m.

I remember getting unexpectedly emotional when touring the USS Yorktown (CV 10) in Charleston.  You can tour the top few decks.  What got me choked up was the "wishing well".  It isn't intended to be a memorial.  It's a vertical shaft down to the lower hull of the ship.  You can pitch your change in if you want to help support the museum.  Perhaps an unintended consequence is that it allows you to see how many decks there are in a ship of this size.  It's worth noting that the wishing well is already a couple decks down from the hanger deck. Here's a pic of the way it looks:

USS Yorktown (CV-10) | Military Wiki | Fandom

What got me was the idea of all those young men stuck at their stations 3, 4 or even 5 levels below with little or no ability to determine whether they lived or died and little chance of escape if the ship were hit.  I've had a similar feeling touring the USS Silversides, a WWII era sub.  I think it's the idea of young men facing death without even the illusion of being able to influence the outcome that always leaves me with a lump in my throat.  

EDIT:  For the same reason, I can't even imagine what it must have been like to fight in the Civil War.

Steve_Jones
Steve_Jones HalfDork
10/20/20 6:48 p.m.
aircooled said:

I visited Hiroshima.

I did as well. There are no words to try and describe it. None. 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UberDork
10/20/20 7:31 p.m.
Mr_Asa said:
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

Most of these places affect me emotionally to one extent or another. The 9/11 memorials in New York, Pennsylvania, and the Pentagon. The Gettysburg battlefield, the various war memorials in notWashington. But the most recent one was here:

Standing underneath a full-scale Saturn V rocket at Kennedy Space Center, and just taking in what a massive accomplishment it was to put people on the moon, and the sacrifices that went into it, I got pretty emotional.

Did you do the Atlantis tour while you were there?  The way they let you into the complex and that first view of the shuttle.  Damn.  I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't been, because it is totally worth it.  To get a sense, here's the best passage describing a shuttle launch I've ever read https://hawkfeather.com/rockets/callahan.html The feeling you get reading that is similar to the feeling you get with that first view of the shuttle

The memorial for the Challenger and Columbia were also incredibly moving in a completely different manner.  Challenger on the left, Columbia on the right

 

 

We only live a few hours away from the Space Center, so I've been several times. The introduction to the Atlantis display moves me to tears.         

Every.   Single.   Time.

As for the Saturn 5 on display, it's full scale because it's​​​ not a mock-up. 

It's the launch system intended for one of the Apollo missions that got cancelled.

And that massive, incredibly complex machine (5 million parts), has been tested with a full duration burn. That candle's been lit!

Of course it's an emotional experience to see it up close. It's the real thing.

Recon1342
Recon1342 Dork
10/20/20 7:58 p.m.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

If you ever get the chance, look at the gimbal mounts for those F-1 engines. Hand-welded, every single one of them...

iceracer
iceracer MegaDork
10/21/20 5:57 p.m.

Arlington cemetery .   All those crosses.  Seeing a young woman lying prostate  in front of a cross.   Boy, that was hard.

Gettysburg .  Listening to Pickets Charge on earphones as we rode along the ridge.

Looking up my nephews name on the Vietnam Wall

Every time I hear Taps.

Jay_W
Jay_W SuperDork
10/21/20 9:21 p.m.

Kennedy Space Center is basically a cathedral to me. Thanks for sharing these pix!

Having seen Atlantis go up on a night launch, I can say that essay by Spider Robinson that Mr_Asa posted (thx fer dat, totally bookmarked) is spot frikkin on. Every word of it. 

ZOO (Forum Supporter)
ZOO (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
10/22/20 4:51 a.m.

The two that hit me hardest:

Auschwitz, both times, but especially the first.  Even the second time I wasn’t ready for the wave of emotions despite every effort to prepare myself   It’s hard to fathom one million plus deaths in one space.

 

pontiacstogo
pontiacstogo Reader
10/22/20 9:29 a.m.
spitfirebill said:

 If there are spirits or ghosts anywhere on planet earth, Andersonville and Auschwitz are 2 of the places they will be.  

Auschwitz was simply a horrible place to visit.  Glad I did, but I had such an overwhelming feeling of dread and sadness while I was there that I truly couldn't wait to leave.

ZOO (Forum Supporter)
ZOO (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
10/22/20 11:12 a.m.

In reply to pontiacstogo :

I felt a duty after the first visit to arrange a school trip.  Hence the second visit.  Being there with students was entirely different, though no less emotional.  I have five years left of my career, and I hope to do one more trip there before I retire.

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