Excavators & collateral damage - reasonable?

Having no previous experience with excavators, how much inadequate work and/or collateral damage is reasonable?

Excavating the footings - had to "step" the foundation due to the ground varying from 8" too low to 12" too high; one fence post knocked out.

Back filling the foundation walls - Bobcat tires nerfed half the walls (just black marks, no real harm); divots in the walls in five places; pair of divots about a foot long and 1/2" deep into the concrete and hard enough to crack the foundation wall all the way through to the outside; large chips taken out of foundation wall near doors; four fence posts knocked loose. Ground has 5" crown to it.

Excavators return to level more - two more chips taken out of foundation walls near doors; 2" crown to ground.

Am I unreasonable in being a bit pissed about this?

They are coming to haul the last of the dirt away. I have instructed them NOT to do any "landscaping," and I have built a "shield" of 2x8's around the foundation and fresh beautiful slab to protect it from them and any stray rocks. Here's hoping.

it sounds bad that they cracked the wall. it is not unreasonable to expect someone operating equipment to be reasonably good at their job. it sounds like these guys are not.

Sounds extremely careless to me. I run excavators for a living and what you are describing is pretty shoddy. Scrapes below the backfill line are not harmful but a cracked foundation is a no no. You should have a structural engineer look at it and see if it needs repair. And don't pay anyone until you get some answers. E36 M3 happens on a job but it should only happen maybe once.

In reply to bearmtnmartin:

Good advice here.

Sounds like the crew you hired has a drinking problem. I figured we were talking about a torn up yard or a fence post or two here, not your brand new foundation getting all berkeleyed up.

Everybody makes mistakes. Its the true test of a man's character after the mistake happens. Does he make it right or does he make excuses?

I would expect any collateral damage is too much. If you can't operate the machine in the space allowed you say "I can't do that without hitting something". Then you decide if you are cool with that.

I vote incompetence.

To hit a foundation hard enough to crack it means a lot of E36 M3 not given. I have not done that in 25 years.

Sounds incompetent to me. The guy I hired had the foundation area to within 1/2" at 80 ft. By eye. He just brought out the transit to make sure and show.

I've had some collateral damage over the years, thinking back I've had a lot. But we always made it right. I would be expecting them to do whatever it takes to make it right.

Was that those short Mexicans that you hired? Maybe if you had fed them better.

I'd have been unbelievably pissed if they cracked my brand new foundation. I hope you had someone come in to inspect it and they paid to make it right because that'd be some lawsuit/calling the state licencing board crap if it were me.

At least here in the US...

I'm no professional excavator operator, but I do have more than a few hours at the controls of them.

I hate operating bobcats in tight areas because all that I have driven seemed very imprecise and twitchy. OTOH, I've operated backhoes, many times larger, with nearly surgical prescion, keep in mind, I'm far from a pro.

These jokers need to own up to their bad work and damage.

~I~ think the crack is not much to worry about (despite being very pissed about it). But I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on television.

For peace of mind, and recourse, I have a Structural Engineer coming on Monday. Pricey bugger - $250CDN just for their call out.

First off HOLD THE $$$$$$. It is your only recourse. You did not pay for a cracked foundation.

I deal with this stuff alot as part of my job. and it is simple. HOLD THE MONEY UNTILL THEY MAKE IT RIGHT.

Notify them in writing via certified / registered mail. Stipulate what the issues are and a deadline for them to fix them by. If they don't have repairs made by that date then the money being held will be used to correct things and the balance will then B paid to the original contractor.

Also call an engineer in to evaluate the damage. Aside from structural integrity of the foundation a cracked foundation in a wet climate can become the Bain of your existence for ever and will also effect resale value and may impede you from being able to get home owners insurance coverage.

The good thing Is modern structural epoxy crack repair systems are very good and is probibly a very viable repair.

Like I said I deal with this stuff all the time. You should get a registered professional to evaluate the damage as well as the long term problem of moisture infiltration.

I deal with this stuff every day too. Good advice has been offered here, which I won't repeat.

But I will add that there is often a direct correlation between the price of the job and the competency of the crew, and the likelihood that they will make good on it.

Did you hire a qualified contractor, or did you hire the cheapest guy you could find? Did you check references? Did you check his insurance coverages? Do you have a contract?

If you hired an illegal migrant operator with a rented machine, you're not going to get any satisfaction. Don't waste your energy. Take a deep breath, and chalk it up to education. Then move on. It will just sap your energy and resources pursuing them legally.

It doesn't change the competency, and you do have a right to be annoyed. But you might have to recognize some of the responsibility lies with you and your hiring method.

I hire low priced contractors often. It's hard managing my own expectations sometimes, and knowing that the problem may not be his capabilities, but that I hired the wrong guy.

Sorry for your frustrations.

I hired a local company, active in my community, recommended by several friends. Dude's kids are friends with my kids. Wasn't the owner who did the work though, it was one of his operators.

Dean - in my post above yours, I have a professional coming.

And in truth - concrete cracks anyways. Some cracks can be a problem. This one may not be. We're talking a hairline fracture; I've seen worse in every basement I've ever been in.

Plus, this ain't 'Murica up here in the Great White north - we don't sue the E36 M3 out of everybody at the drop of a hat. E36 M3 happens, we look at options to deal with it, it gets dealt with. Last resort (not the first resort) is to sue.

Doing anything other than sealing the crack is going to reduce the strength of the wall. May not even leak - this ground is so rocky, it doesn't even hold water.

In reply to SkinnyG:

If it's a poured concrete wall an epoxy injection will basically weld it back together, it will be stronger at the crack than the surrounding concrete. If it's larger than an eighth of an inch or has deflection I would recommend either rebar stitching or stapling coupled with epoxy injection.

Also, depending on where the crack is, center of a long wall, interior or exterior, look for signs that the wall was possibily pushed in. If you have a crack on the interior, near the center, look for corresponding cracks on the exterior near the corners, often they will run from the top going towards the center.

Check for plumb.

I've fixed many walls that got pushed in simply from operators driving a machine parallel to a long wall. It happens very easily.

A contractor I hired to build some split stone retaining walls had his own backhoe operator, who was an artiste. He worked extremely quickly, swung the bucket at high speed to within inches of the wall of the house, and never touched anything. It was beautiful to watch, and extremely efficient. What you've experienced is very shoddy and amateur. Actually, on reflection, an amateur probably would have been more careful.

SkinnyG wrote: I hired a local company, active in my community, recommended by several friends. Wasn't the owner who did the work though, it was one of his operators.

I don't think that is very relevant.

The owner is still responsible for the training of the operator, and for the damages.

I am not talking about suing anyone what I am outlining is how to use what leverage you have to be made whole. Your comment about the owners kids and your kids playing together etc does change things. I would give him a call and ask him over for a beer so he can look at the situation. He may be as shocked as you are about it.

OP said: Doing anything other than sealing the crack is going to reduce the strength of the wall.

Absolutely not. Epoxy injection is as Nick said. It makes the crack the strongest part of the wall.

@Nick: I specify many products from a company called Fosroc. I have used many of there products for various structural and non structural concrete repairs (they are excellent by the way) and they are selling a epoxy system that will take care of cracks from .3MM to 9.0mm. I have not used it yet but since it covers such a range I am no longer going to spec the various different ones that are usually needed for narrow cracks versus wide ones as this will cover virtually everything that I would consider using epoxy injection.

In reply to dean1484:

I've been out of that game for almost ten years, I'm sure there has been progress made. Going off of memory we got our product from a company called Emeco. We had a good working relationship with the owner/head chemist. I've used everything from super ultra low viscosity all the way to super ultra high. It all depended on the situation.

In reply to Nick (Not-Stig) Comstock:

I have used Emeco as well. It is also a very good product.

The OP may want to look at Hilti as they sell kits for taking care of smaller number of cracks. Many of the manufactures sell it in larger batches that can get a bit pricy.

For the record the going rate around Boston for epoxy crack injection is between $175 and $250 per foot. These prices seem to be the norm now. 3-4 years ago prices were half this for some reason. I don't know why.

In reply to dean1484:

Damn, we were way cheaper than that but it was a long time ago. $250 first 8' and $75 per foot after that.