#fightme

I'm going to be very unpopular. 
 

Let's examine everybody's favorite villain, Darth Vader. Intimidating. Powerful. But not the most powerful. Maybe third, after Luke and Kylo. Then Rey. So Fourth. And possibly behind Kenobi, Luke, Windu, Yoda, Palpatine, or even Dooku, but I'll leave that alone for now. 
So let's look at how he got there. 
A freed slave, suddenly given a very enviable lifestyle, but unable to keep the promises he made (To the Jedi order, and to not betraying his wife and strangling her while pregnant standing on a volcano). And a poor teacher, who constantly endangers his apprentice, before she quits entirely. So then he swears to a new master on a promise of "together we might unlock the secret of immortality." So for the second time he goes on a rampage, killing "not just the men, but the women, and the children."  With me so far? Ok. So now we have the biggest baddie in the universe. Who answers to Palpatine. Oh and also to Tarkin. And who is still unable to find Ashoka, yoda, or kenobi. Or detect the lie that his child(ren) survived. Still not powerful or trusted enough to be taught Force Lightning, though he can stop a laser blast with is bare (gloved) hand. Ultimately he is killed by his own master. 
Hardly the biggest villain ever, even in his own story. 
 

Then lets examine Kylo Ren. We can see that he is more powerful than his esteemed uncle from pretty early on, despite him not realizing it. We also see that he is more convicted than Vader, only leaving his early teacher after being betrayed, and not for some cradle robbing politician. Then he overpowers not just one, but two masters. Sure, Luke pulled a little sneaky, but the effort killed him. Also consider that Luke was scared of Kylo. Luke wasn't scared of Vader, in fact, he was confident in his ability to recruit Vader. 
 

In a nutshell, there is my argument. Vader was possibly more cruel, and was bad for much longer, but Kylo was an all around better character. More powerful, more ambitious (a very important trait for any villain) and wiser. 
 

Hate all you want, report me to the nerd authorities. Flag this as spam. 
 

Or lay out a reasonable argument and try to sway me. 

Vader had confidence with the mask on. Kylo was always a coward. 

Jar Jar is the sith master and doesn't have a canon death yet. He orchestrated the take down of the entire republic to get revenge on the nubians and the gungans for both shunning him. He's easily the best villain.

Star Wars said all there was to say by 1983.  Since then, the films constitute the figurative pulling on the teats of a big old cash cow.

1988RedT2 said:

Star Wars said all there was to say by 1983.  Since then, the films constitute the figurative pulling on the teats of a big old cash cow.

you are entitled to your wrong opinion.

Ok, here is a question: Who was the more powerful Jedi/Sith: Anakin Skywalker, or Darth Vader? Because I don't think that the cyborg Vader  (and he was mostly cyborg, only human for... a day or two?) could take on Anakin.

Just goes to show that in movies as in life, it's not your real skill that matters, but rather your emotional intelligence.

Vader weak but has the people skills to build and reign. Kylo strong but whiny and literally no one can stand him.

Even at the very end when han is going for redemption/suicide, you get the idea that he has some moments of "geez kid just make a damn decision already".

David Prowse and James Earl Jones made a better character out of Vader without anyone seeing Vader's face than anyone who portrayed Anakin or the actor that portrayed Kylo Ren.

And Vader is/was a better villain.  BTW, Luke was not trying to recruit Vader, Luke was trying to save his father.

Also, here is my ranking of the strogest Force users (and Grevious): 

1: Anakin

2: Windu

3: Palpatine

4: Rey (just about whipped Kylo with no training)

5: Luke

6: Kylo

5: Yoda

6: Dooku

7: Vader

8: Obi Wan

9: Grevious

10: Maul

11: Qui Gon

12: Snoke

Leaving Ashoka out of this because I'm not there yet

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

That's a good question. I'd think that Vader was just as strong but less attuned than Anakin. I'm still watching Clone Wars, and in reality we don't get a lot of screen time with Vader. 

I actually haven't even finished the last movie, I didn't even like it enough to finish it. I love star wars but the latest Disney stuff isn't great imo. Im still annoyed they made the books non-canon too.

I can't really say there was a character I liked in the new trilogy.

Anakin was a whiney little bi.... ungrateful child. DV became something sinister and evil throughout the empire.

Kylo was also a whiney ... well you get it. He had more power, but did not have the presence of his grandfather. 

Gul Dukat, was the best bad guy; cynical, clinical, genocidal, and Pa-wraith power.

#TrekWars

bigdaddylee82 said:

Gul Dukat, was the best bad guy; cynical, clinical, genocidal, and Pa-wraith power.

 

#TrekWars

He did a great job imo.

Vader is cool and all but have you met Thanos? 

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Rogue One and Solo were good

#fightme

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Vader didn't have a choice with the mask. He was confident, but it's hard to really distinguish confidence from cockiness. Also he was older than Kylo, and had way more experience. 
I don't think Kylo was a coward at all. Young, impressionable. Clearly he was angsty, and he had a lot to live up to vs. Anakin who had nobody to prove himself to. Cowardly though? I don't see it. 

ProDarwin said:

In reply to 1988RedT2 :

Rogue One and Solo were good

#fightme

Rogue One was great, solo was......eh

In reply to bobzilla :

A big chunk of Vader's "presence" can be attributed to age and experience. The only other thing which might set him above Kylo as a sith was his role in order 66, but most of that was done for him by the clones. Vader was an arm of the empire, which was formed from the republic, and in many folks eyes there was just authority there because government. "This guy is in charge because he works for the guy who controls the government that we've been living under for 1000 years."

In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :

Dude was afraid of his own shadow. He used his power like a guy with a machine gun in a shadow filled room. 

#fightme

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

What the rules on challenging a mod to a duel?

Your choice of water gun whenever we're both at Challenge. 

In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :

You've fallen for one of the two classic blunders! The first being never get involved in a land war in Asia but only slightly lesser known: never go in against a Mod when DEATH is on the line! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Vader and Kylo Ren both operated from fear turned into anger. 

Vader was trained by Obi Wan and Palpatine/Darth Sidious and was much more disciplined and had much more and better training. 

Ren was trained first by Luke Skywalker who was actually afraid of Ren, and inflicted his fear upon Ren, creating a much more uncontrolled monster. Luke's training was never really completed by Yoda and he really wasn't up to the task of training a Jedi or recreating the Jedi Temple. He was too impatient and too emotional.

I'm so confused...