In reply to NickD :
That is pretty. I saw the New York Central unit last week (too far away to get a photo), which is also very sharp, and looks just right on the Hudson Line.
In reply to NickD :
That is pretty. I saw the New York Central unit last week (too far away to get a photo), which is also very sharp, and looks just right on the Hudson Line.
In reply to 02Pilot :
Yeah, that livery works surprisingly well for being designed for locomotives of a completely different design. It's also nice to see a different New Haven livery represented, since most stuff in preservation is in the McGinnis livery, with a few road switchers in the Pullman Green cab with Warm Orange hoods. Of course part of that is because almost nothing that wore the Pullman Green (or later Hunter Green) and Deluxe Gold still exists. The electric passenger motors, DL-109s, PA-1s and CPA-24-5s are all gone.
A DL-109 in the Pullman Green/Deluxe Gold livery. The whole paint scheme situation with the DL-109s gets really confusing, since there were no fewer than ten different paint schemes applied at various times to various units, some of them being very similar. For example, the first 36 units were delivered in Pullman Green with Deluxe Gold striping, including an oval stripe around the windows but then several units were repainted in Hunter Green with unevenly spaced wide Deluxe Gold striping and no curves around the front window area like the other striped schemes in 1943-1944. The last 24 units were delivered in Hunter Green with evenly spaced, thin silver gray stripes and lettering (nicknamed "Brooks Brothers") but at least two units had the "Brooks Brothers" scheme in Pullman and Deluxe Gold. Then, beginning in 1948, all new units and any existing units repainted were done in Pullman Green and Deluxe Gold, in a design similar to #1 but without the oval around the windows, which was also the delivery scheme for the second set of PA-1s.
The "Brooks Brothers" paint scheme, which is actually Hunter Green and light gray, despite looking black and white. The unit behind it is in the Pullman Green and Warm Orange livery that New Haven started applying in 1947, just to backtrack to a simplified version of the first livery a year later.
This was the Pullman Green over Warm Orange with white pinstriping livery that the first PA-1s were delivered in, and some of the DL-109s received, before New Haven went back to the original Pullman Green and Deluxe Yellow paint scheme.
There were also some weird one-offs, like the #0722, which was painted in the layout of the as-delivered paint scheme, but with a bright red and white for use on the summertime Boston-Cape Cod Cranberry.
Or the #0759, which was the sole DL-109 to wear the McGinnis livery. That was mostly a matter of timing; by the time McGinnis started rolling out the Herbert Matter-designed livery in '55, the DL-109s were running out their last miles, being retired in '56.
Pretty cool to see that Metra has donated EMD F40C #614 to Illinois Railway Museum. The F40C is somewhat similar to the infamous EMD SDP40F, an SD40-based cowl-bodied passenger unit. The major difference is that the F40C had 200hp more (for a total of 3200hp), rode on the SD40-2 frame and was about 3 feet shorter in length as a result, and was delivered with HEP generators instead of the SDP40F's steam generators. They were the last 6-axle passenger power until Metra purchased the SD70MACHs in recent years, and they were some of the last new power purchased by Milwaukee Road, with only the GP38-2s and MP15ACs coming later.
Yes, the F40Cs were originally Milwaukee Road power, and no to be confused with the similar-looking F45s that they also owned. In 1974, the North West Suburban Mass Transit District and the North Suburban Mass Transit District subsidized the acquisition of 15 F40Cs for use on the Milwaukee Road's Chicago-Fox Lake and Chicago-Elgin commuter lines. Those unique ribbed stainless steel panels on the sides were chose specifically to match the fairly bilevel commuter coaches. The F40Cs were passed on to Metra in the 1980s, but largely withdrawn from service around 2003-2004 when the MP36PH-3Ss arrived on the property. Thirteen of them were sold off, one to NRE and twelve to Helm Leasing, and all of them are now scrapped. The #610, which had been retired due to an electrical fire before being sold to NRE, was scrapped when NRE cleaned up the Dixmoor site. The twelve with Helm were supposed to be leased to KCS, and then that deal fell apart when it turned out it would be too expensive to reconfigure them for freight use.
The last two, #611 and #614 were briefly reactivated in January 2005 after problems with the MPI MP36PH-3Ss, and then again in the spring of 2009 to pick up the slack while the F40PH fleet was being rebuilt. Neither locomotive has seen regular service since 2012, most being stored at the Western Avenue yard and having had a bunch of parts "borrowed." Metra at one time did have plans to rebuild both F40Cs to test new prime movers and control packages, but due to a lack of bidders, that plan was put on hold indefinitely, and it seems less likely with the #614's departure to IRM. According to IRM, they hope to get the #614 operational again but "the locomotive needs various missing components replaced, notably turbocharger, aftercoolers and ducts, radiators, diode banks, and some other small items."
The #54/#614 in its original Milwaukee Road paint scheme, light blue and white with light orange chevrons, with a pretty sizable train at Western Avenue.
The #54 picking up orders at Rondout tower.
I mean, they're handsome, but was white really the best choice?
Duke said:
I mean, they're handsome, but was white really the best choice?
I think the idea was that they wanted to emulate the red and stainless steel look of the passenger units, but didn't want to go the route of stainless-steel body work on freight units that were going to get beat up. That paint scheme wasn't terribly long-lived, being replaced with the black and gray with yellow, red and white accents on the "Everywhere West/Route of the Zephyrs" livery. Light gray and white paint schemes as a whole tended to be pretty difficult to maintain, and it seems like a lot of the railroads (Burlington excepted) that did go that route were also the worst at washing equipment as well. Lehigh Valley's "Snowbird" C628s were always a mess, and the railroad quickly repainted them into the regular Cornell Red livery, and their "Yellowjacket" C420s were also always pretty grimy. Same with Lehigh & Hudson River's light gray and light blue C420s and anything in L&N gray and yellow or D&H lightning stripes.
Also, Duke, I see there's been a bit of ruckus down your way, with Wilmington & Western announcing on Monday that they would be indefinitely halting all operations. Now, they have released a statement today:
Dear Friends and Supporters of the Wilmington & Western Railroad,
For over 60 years, our organization has proudly shared the rich history of the Red Clay Valley and the legacy of the railroad with you. Our volunteers and staff have dedicated their time and energy to preserving and interpreting the cultural, natural, and railroad heritage of northern Delaware for the enjoyment of the public. We're incredibly grateful for your support and enthusiasm throughout this journey.
As our historic trains continue to age, the time has come for us to take a proactive step in ensuring their long-term viability. We’ve made the decision to pause our operations for the 2025 season to conduct important maintenance and repairs to our beloved equipment. While our historic trains have stood the test of time, it’s crucial that we focus on restoring and maintaining them for the future.
While we do not have an exact date for when we’ll resume our excursions, rest assured that we are working hard to ensure the railroad is stronger than ever. Your ongoing support means the world to us as we take these important steps toward preserving the Wilmington & Western Railroad’s legacy for generations to come.
We look forward to welcoming you back aboard soon and appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of necessary restoration.
Thank you for being a part of our journey.
With gratitude,
The Wilmington & Western Railroad
Nice sentiment, but it begs the question of: isn't winter the season when you're supposed to do all your maintenance (Most places shut down between Christmas and Easter for that reason)? If you're either that far behind on maintenance or that short on workforce that you can't catch up in that timespan, and don't know when you'll get caught up, you've got a serious issue.
Now, doing some reading in places, it paints a pretty ugly picture. Word is that the W&W has NO motive power at the moment up to the job of running trains, due to mismanagement of mechanical resources. Their 0-6-0 #58 needs repairs, again (It was in and out of service all year with issues and band-aird repairs), and SW1s #8408 and #114 have both become so unreliable that supposedly the winter Santa trips were "topped and tailed" by both SW1s because neither could be counted on to make the trip solo. Their 4-4-0, #98, is still under repair/overhaul as well, and while the railroad previously expected to have it in service again in the spring, all bets are off. One person claims that if the FRA gave a close inspection, all of the equipment would be out of service. There are decades of maintenance issues, and some issues with the steam locomotives could have been catastrophic in nature. Whenever someone new gets involved, they make the mistake of trying to fix things and they end up getting forced out.
As others are saying, this should be of no surprise to anyone who has had the slightest glimpse behind the curtain. Zero maintenance on equipment, inadequate facilities, complete dismissal of dedicated volunteer staff who were the only reason equipment turned a wheel, all overseen by a board of directors that are frequently cited as being corrupt and/or inept. The board is said to have changed the by-laws eliminating the membership's ability to elect the board, totally without input from the membership. As a result, they have an ironclad lock on the organization and dozens of hard-working volunteers have left. When people speak up the board sends letters from their lawyers threatening to sue for releasing information. The board fired two executive directors who tried the run the organization like a proper non-profit. Since then, they decided to only have a GM with all the decisions and marching orders coming from the board. There are a fair number of thoroughly disgruntled ex-W&W folks for a variety of reasons, enough that at least one entire excursion line is thought of somewhat as a "spite railroad," even using a former W&W locomotive.
In reply to NickD :
Yeah, they are local to me, though unfortunately I've never ridden the W&W. You can practically drive the line, however, as most of it runs along good roads within feet of the Red Clay Creek.
Sucks about all the political infighting. Makes you wonder why so many of these specialist, volunteer driven efforts seem to attract such dick management.
I gotta wonder if the FRA came a-knocking, maybe a disgruntled former volunteer being a whistleblower (har-har), and that was why they shut down. Or they were worried about that and took preemptive action.
I also someone questioning if the W&W might be suffering from the nearby proximity of the Woodstown Central (literally just across the Delaware River), which is new, marketing very aggressively, and is chock full of shiny new equipment.
Duke said:Sucks about all the political infighting. Makes you wonder why so many of these specialist, volunteer driven efforts seem to attract such dick management.
Someone who has never had any power in their life gets a taste and goes nuts. Always seems to happen. My father is a member of the NYO&W Historical Society and that is just now recovering after the president of the society basically locked everyone out of the organization. And keep in mind, this is just a historical society that doesn't own any equipment or run any operations, or even have much of a physical footprint other than photo and document archives.
In reply to NickD :
See also sports car clubs, knitting societies, etc.
In reply to NickD :
It's possible, but I bet Woodstown is not a major competitor. The W&W line is a very pleasant trip through some nice rolling woods; almost always within sight of the Red Clay and going through estate country.
Anyone going to the W&W would have probably 45 minutes extra drive to get to Woodstown.
According to someone who is quite knowledgeable on the W&W, the railroad operated one last set of trips last weekend with former PRR doodlebug #4662 for the Hockessin Art Festival, which is the far end of the line. This was before the announcement and these were just short jaunts for $5. Even the doodlebug is in such poor shape that they used SW-1 #114 to tow the doodlebug the 10 miles to the far end of the line and back, rather than trust it to make the deadhead trip alone. The doodlebug did run some short trips and then was towed back to the shop, and then the announcement was made regarding indefinite suspension of operations.
It sounds like the roundhouse project at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania is finally moving forward. They have long had a 100ft turntable installed outside, but have lacked coverage for a lot of the PRR steam locomotive collection. It's been talked about for years, but never seems to have gotten off the ground.
The new structure’s is said to be inspired by the Cressona enginehouse (loosely, in my mind, since it's pretty modern-looking) and the design will utilize brick, steel and glass, as well as a clerestory-style roof, which maximizes the use of natural lighting. Why a Reading design for a PRR collection? Well, the 100ft turntable is of Reading heritage, having been installed at West Cressona in 1918, anticipating the N1s 2-8-8-2 Mallets that the USRA was providing. Reading closed the West Cressona engine house in the 1930s, in favor of nearby St. Clair and the turntable was stored in Reading. In 1948, Reading initiated Bridgeport-Port Reading coal trains with T-1 4-8-4 power, and the table was transplanted to Bridgeport and later got to turn #2124 on an Iron Horse Ramble. Later, a highway project got the Reading a new, free wye in Norristown, which made the turntable surplus and RRMPA bought it.
The engines to be displayed under it will be:
Currently the #460 and the #7688 are in the main hall, and their removal will hopefully allow some of the other pieces outdoors, notably GG1 prototype #4800 "Old Rivets" and DD1 pair #3936 and #3937, to be moved inside. Class A5s 0-4-0 #94, Class D16sb 4-4-0 #1223, Class G5s 4-6-0 #5741, Class H6sb 2-8-0 #2846 and Class E7s 4-4-2 "#7002" will remain in the main hall. And the #6755, #3750, #520, and #1670 all require serious cosmetic restoration, due to years of sitting outdoors at the museum. I know that the #1670 is currently undergoing work, and I believe that the #520 might be receiving some as well. It's also rumored that outdoor awnings may be constructed at the same time for some of the outdoor pieces in the front corral.
I've seen a least one person bemoaning how modern the building will look, since a historical structure would provide better photo ops. But, original roundhouses were pretty dark and dingy and had tight confines. The old DL&W roundhouse at Steamtown is extremely dark and any photos, or even viewing, of the engines are pretty difficult. In my opinion, while not historical in appearance, it beats the hell out of no damn roof at all.
An interesting photo of the inside of the Northumberland Roundhouse with the PRR collection inside, circa 1956. On the left is the H3 Consolidation, #1187, and just visible to the right is the A5s 0-4-0 #94 (slope-deck tender narrows it down to the 0-4-0 or 0-6-0, and the larger cab front doors and vertical tank under the cab narrow it down to the A5s.) But what is the 2-6-0 #9684 in the center, which is a number and wheel arrangement not mentioned in the above list? Well, that's a 3' narrow gauge engine, formerly of the Waynesburg & Washington. The "Waynie", as locals called it, was a 28-mile 3' common carrier tucked among the hills and valleys of Southwestern Pennsylvania. The railroad operated from 1875 to April 6, 1933, and the Pennsylvania Railroad purchased the line in 1885, making it one of two narrow gauge operations in the mighty Pennsy system.
Alco manufactured seven 2-6-0s at its Cooke Works in May 1916 to replace older motive power, and this engine was originally being Waynesburg & Washington second #4. The W&W locomotives were numbered into the Pennsy's roster during March 1920 and #4 became PRR #9684 (The "968x" block was the Pennsy series for narrow gauge locomotives) and received full PRR lettering. Like a lot of narrow gauge operations, the W&W didn't survive the Great Depression and was shut down in 1933. When the #9684 was retired, it was retained and stored at the Northumberland roundhouse along with the rest of the Pennsy historical collection.
Now, things with the #9684 are a little weird, because there is a Bob Richardson photo of thee #9684 on a transfer table at at the Pennsylvania Railroad shops in East Canton, Ohio in 1946. I'm guessing East Canton shops may have had the capabilities to handle narrow gauge equipment, since the other PRR narrow gauge operation, the Bellaire, Zanesville & Cincinatti, was less than 2 hours away. And at first blush it may seem like, "Oh, they moved the #9684 west to be used on the BZ&C," but the BZ&C had been closed down over a decade before these photos, having only outlasted the "Waynie" by two years.
Now, to get back to the top photo, it's also interesting that in that photo, it's sitting on what had to have been a section of narrow gauge panel track in the roundhouse, but in photos as late as 1953, it was sitting in the roundhouse on a standard gauge flatcar. It would leave the roundhouse by 1959 though, when the railroad returned the engine, bestowed with its original number and W&W lettering, to Waynesburg for exhibit where it was displayed outdoors at the Greene County Fairgrounds. At the time, the PRR had no place or even plan for their collection, since the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania didn't exist at the time, and they really weren't above splitting up the collection. The I1sa #4483, which was sold to Westinghouse, is the one that people know about, but most aren't aware that they also got rid of the Waynesburg & Washington 2-6-0. The #4/#9684 is still housed at the Greene County Historical Society, undergoing a cosmetic restoration, and they also have acquired the last remaining Waynesburg & Washington coach.
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