Anyone else see Hamilton? We saw it this past weekend in Orlando.
Can't remember getting that much history via a Broadway production, and I hope the audience took some home with them. "A French dude at the Revolutionary War?"
Come for the snappy music, stay for HIS 101.
Also, Dr. Phillips Center is a fine place. Definitely a sport coat over cargo shorts. Previously we saw Bob Dylan and Deep Purple there (not at the same time).
In reply to David S. Wallens :
Broadway (and Hollywood) are notorious for getting history wrong, and Hamilton is no exception. While some of the fundamentals are correct, there is definitely artistic license taken in several areas. There are quite a few articles on this, for example this one from the BBC.
Sorry to burst the bubble, but I deal with this from students on a regular basis ("But I saw it in a movie...").
In reply to 02Pilot :
Oh, totally not 100% accurate, but do most people realize it's all based on real events? (Cats was, too, I hear.)
My wife and daughter are going to go see it live this weekend. We;ve previously seen it a few years back in Chicago and really enjoyed it. Our kids really love the music.
No it's not perfectly accurate, but the rap and music is fun and catchy, and it definitely can be a springboard to learning more about the real history behind the revolutionary war and early years of the Republic.
As supplemental reading I really loved reading The Black Count - a biography of one of Lafayette's compatriots, and also Lafayette in the Somewhat United States, which tracked his life after the war.
Just saw it for the 5th time on Monday. Love it.
So it's not accurate- but for a lot of people, it made them get the book that inspired Lin-Manuel Miranda to write the musical- Ron Chernow's biography of Hamilton. Lots really good history in that book. And we later got his book about George Washington. When we saw it the first time, kids were dressed in period dress. Talk about making interest in history.
To me, the oddest part that got it wrong in the play was the heavy implication that Charles Lee didn't deserve to be promoted to General- but he was one of a handful that were made General by the Continental Congress and was #2 already. Washington really had no choice when the British returned him from being a prisoner. He did suck as general, though.
Lots of good videos out there that describe where he got it wrong. But it was 100% with the intention of telling a story for the stage- as Chernow was involved in the process.
Some other fun things I've found out about it was how many more words were spoken or sung than a normal musical. Hamilton flies by at 144 words/min, and the next closest appears to be Company at 83. And some of the rapping is over 200 words/min- just amazing how they get it all off.
I saw the Disney + rendition. While I can see how people enjoy it, it turns out I just can't deal with musical theatre.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
That's sort of the problem. If something is presented as "history", people tend to think it's an accurate representation of what happened. Someone who has seen a historically-inspired performance that is, let's say, 80% correct, is more likely to conflate what they saw with what is historically correct, whereas something obviously fictional but placed in a historical setting tends to be less problematic. I realize that I probably sound like a pedantic tool here, but having repeatedly beaten my head against the walls of my ivory tower over the last two decades as a result of this sort of thing, it tends to strike a nerve.
BTW, while there's no direct connection between Sir Lewis and Alexander, their backgrounds look to be pretty close. Not directly, as it appears that former slaves took the Hamilton estate name. And with records lost due to hurricanes, the direct link from the plantation owner back to a common ancestor has been lost if it existed.
But Sir Lewis's family is from Grenada, Alexander was born on Nevis and moved to St Croix.
In reply to 02Pilot :
But it's not presented as history- people infer that on their own. Inspired by the book by Chernow, but not history. That's what is says in the program.
In reply to alfadriver :
Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of disclaimers and such, but that doesn't stop people from thinking they just sat through a history lesson, but with music. And the cast interviews and advertising certainly don't tend to try to disabuse people of that notion (I'm in metro NY, so I remember the media blitz when it first came out).
I do not consider Chernow to be a particularly inquisitive historian, but he is a capable writer and does excel at self-promotion. If the play gets people to start reading history, that's great; it's the considerable number of people who fail to do so and still present themselves as authorities on the subject for having seen the show that I have a problem with.
Saw it twice in Chicago. First time I went in thinking I was going to hate it, as there have been about 3 rap performances I'd ever liked up til then. Came out pretty obsessed. Easily my favorite live musical and 2nd favorite musical overall.
The Disney+ version is OK, but it has nothing on the live show. I went to high school with Pippa Soo though, so that's cool.
In reply to 02Pilot :
You must be a blast at parties.
I'm significantly ticked that I didn't see it. Here's my luck....
Many moons ago I went to NYC to visit my cousin who is the drummer for the Late Show band (Stay Human/Stephen Colbert). We met for dinner but he had to go a little early because he was attending the pre-opening of a new show. He said it was "about some president." I sarcastically said "sounds great." He emailed me later to tell me all about Hamilton. He said CBS has house seats and if I ever wanted to see it for free, I just need to call him.
Which I didn't.
When I finally got around to making it a priority, it had become so popular that CBS lost their house seats and I was suddenly in Ticketmaster territory. Friendzoned by Broadway.
Fast forward a few months when I learned from a HS classmate that our other classmate Bill was the berkeleying Stage Manager for Hamilton. So I reached out to him like "hey buddy, it's been 30 years, what are you up to these days?"
He didn't bite.
Still haven't seen it.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Ooof that hurts. Pretty cool story though, just with the wrong ending
In reply to mtn :
I went in knowing nothing about the performance–the man, yes, but not the performance other than it was a Big Deal.
My wife wanted to go, so we made it our birthday/holidays present since we don't need any more stuff. The matinee worked best for our schedules, and we got good seats. Not front row, but lower bowl. ("Orchestra," I guess, in correct parlance.)
A day before the show, I pinged a younger/hipper friend who lives in a Real City.
Ever see Hamilton? I asked.
Yes, she said, giving it very good marks.
Is it a musical?
There's rap.
I know rap. I saw RUN-DMC live. So, I figured, I'd dig it.
And I did. It wasn't anything like what I expected but would recommend. And like alfadriver mentioned, it moves quickly. Like, really quickly. That's what got me wondering if the audience was able to grab ahold of the "history." (I put it in quotes since we all know it's not 100% correct.)
In reply to mtn :
Our first was in Chicago- got tickets after sitting behind two women on the ride back home who had the book you got at the show. So we decided to get tickets for the next time we were going. Other than knowing the order of the songs, had no idea what we were going to see- not even the kind of music. Pretty transformative musical, that's for sure.
According to the program, we saw an understudy for Aaron Burr. Couldn't tell.
We just wrapped Joseph/Dreamcoat. While totally not biblically accurate, it is a fun comedy which references several biblical things. I get that it's not a theology lesson, but it does present it in a way that helps you understand parts of the parables of Genesis.
I think both viewpoints are valid. Not an accurate history lesson, but a very entertaining parable that makes it relatable. No one would go see a show that was a perfect re-creation of factual historic events. It would be two hours of Ben Franklin dipping a quill in an inkwell
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
We recently saw a local performance of Young Frankenstein. It wasn't 100% true to the movie, but we enjoyed it. (It's pronounced “Fronkensteen.”)
And I get that it can be maddening to see a production that's not technically accurate. (Look at the chatter about Ford v. Ferrari or even F&F.)
I think Curtis nailed it: a piece that's 100% historically accurate could be less appealing to the masses.)
I'll admit that we are obsessed with Lin-Manuel Miranda, love In the Heights and really enjoyed Encanto (which he did all of the songs sung).
And while learning about Alexander Hamilton was really interesting, to me the real fascinating story is the story why.
He picked up Chernow's book in the airport on his honeymoon trip. Would your new spouse like if you got a massive book as light reading? The message there being that your muse can come from anything. Other lessons are- don't feel bad about using good ideas from other people - Lin Manuel has mentioned a ton of different artists he paid tribute to- some really obvious, some really subtle. But he took their ideas and changed them to work brilliantly for the musical; Attention to DETAIL- there are real reasons why the music sounds so good- the structure of the music is done in a way that is both unusual and pleasing to the ears Let alone the rap- he uses some very interesting ways to rhyme- like using the middle of a word to be the rhyme in a phrase.
While it's really interesting to teach the history, I also think it's interesting to teach what seems to be the process of creativity.
The whole original concept was a "Mix Tape" that started with "Alexander Hamilton" that he presented as a chance to the President in 2009 (he was invited due to In the Heights). You can see the performance on YouTube- and it's a pretty funny opening he talks about.
I may be showing my whiteness here, but my favorite part was the King. Dude was absolutely hilarious.
mtn said:I may be showing my whiteness here, but my favorite part was the King. Dude was absolutely hilarious.
Best King George we've seen so far was one of them in Chicago. He was amazing, and hilarious.
In reply to mtn :
You have no idea.
It may be that the fact that I'm up to my eyeballs in poorly-written end-of-semester essays right now is making me particularly sensitive to this sort of thing. Please continue your theater discussion - I will cease being pedantic and irritating in this thread (no promises for other threads, however).
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:We just wrapped Joseph/Dreamcoat. While totally not biblically accurate, it is a fun comedy which references several biblical things. I get that it's not a theology lesson, but it does present it in a way that helps you understand parts of the parables of Genesis.
I've heard that the Bible isn't 100% accurate either.
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