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dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
11/29/22 10:10 a.m.

Roughly 4 years ago, we built a detached garage on our property. We designed it to include a ~600 sqft one bedroom apartment, which we very successfully rented out via AirBnB for the first 2 years. Once COVID hit, we talked with my dad (now 84) about moving in full time, as his house at the time was too big and too costly for him to maintain. Overall, it has worked out well for all involved. 

Recently, he has talked about getting his own internet service direct to the apartment, rather than using our service. Our current set up is a mesh network, and the wifi signal struggles to  reliably get to his apartment, even with a satellite in his place (the main router is as close to the apartment as possible). Our main house is a very old block home and is horrible for signal transmission (we struggle at the far end of the house too). However AT&T (our current provider) will not offer two internet services to a single address.

He would also prefer to receive his own mail (and the constant stream of Amazon packages) at his place, rather depending on us to deliver everything to him.

Lastly, later in life, my wife and I may decide to live in the apartment while renting out the main house.

With those things in mind, I am curious if we could 'split' our address. Our current address has a 4 digit house number (1234 NW 5th Place for example). Would it be possible to set up 1234-A and 1234-B? Would I do that with the post office? Our county property appraiser? Somewhere else? Are there reasons not to do so that I'm not thinking of? 

 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/29/22 10:12 a.m.

It's absolutely possible. Start with your local postmaster.

 

slefain
slefain UltimaDork
11/29/22 10:53 a.m.

Our duplex was set up as A and B for years, not sure how though. The county GCIS database saw it as a single address though. So it is possible.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider UberDork
11/29/22 10:53 a.m.

So when I started to do this for my parcel in Nevada, I had to get approval from the local zoning commission too.

Are you looking to create a separate legal parcel for it with the ability to sell separate in the future or just get 2 mailing address for the same legal parcel. 

Judging from the statements, I think the later but want to clarify as the process is different. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/29/22 10:55 a.m.

How is your mail delivered currently? 

Box on the house? Box at the curb? Gang box at end of street? 

If not gang box, mail could be as easily as setting a second box, clearly marked A&B.  Fed Ex deliveries could be as easy as clearly marked address signs of 123A and 123B applied to the house. 

Notifying your municipality could have code, zoning, and tax assessment consequences depending on how you went about the "garage building permit." 

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/29/22 10:58 a.m.

How hard would it be to run a cable from your internet router to the apartment and then add a WiFi repeater? 

I agree with the above comment about the potential changes in real estate taxes. 

dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
11/29/22 11:04 a.m.

@bmw88rider - We aren't looking to create separate parcels. Solely 2 different mailing address for the same legal parcel.

@John Welsh - Box on the main house. We want to have 2 different "official" addresses - one so mail can be delivered separately and two so AT&T will (hopefully) consider 1234-B a separate address and be willing to deliver internet service directly to his apartment. I'd prefer not to deal with the various city/county entities if I don't have to. We did everything by the book (we hired a builder, went through zoning, adhered to setbacks, etc) but I don't want to unintentionally trigger any sort of tax/assessment situation. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/29/22 11:26 a.m.
John Welsh said:

Notifying your municipality could have code, zoning, and tax assessment consequences depending on how you went about the "garage building permit." 

I assume, since they AirBnBed it, that it has a valid occupancy permit.

 

dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
11/29/22 12:44 p.m.
Duke said:
John Welsh said:

Notifying your municipality could have code, zoning, and tax assessment consequences depending on how you went about the "garage building permit." 

I assume, since they AirBnBed it, that it has a valid occupancy permit.

 

Correct

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
11/29/22 12:57 p.m.

I know that we used to just add the second address into our system but then you get into other issues. Do they have separate power meters?  How would ATT bond to ground if the one power meter is on the main house?

dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
11/29/22 12:59 p.m.
Stampie said:

I know that we used to just add the second address into our system but then you get into other issues. Do they have separate power meters?  How would ATT bond to ground if the one power meter is on the main house?

Good point and good question. Today, we only have one power meter. And I'm not sure our local power provider would be willing to install a 2nd meter, nor do I think I want one. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
11/29/22 1:06 p.m.

Couldn't that be fixed by installing a new ground rod at the garage apartment?

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
11/29/22 1:11 p.m.

In reply to dyintorace :

I don't think you can avoid talking with local authorities. The postal service will be involved, but so will local authorities like the fire department, etc. 
 

 

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane UltraDork
11/29/22 1:12 p.m.
dyintorace said:

@John Welsh - Box on the main house. We want to have 2 different "official" addresses - one so mail can be delivered separately and two so AT&T will (hopefully) consider 1234-B a separate address and be willing to deliver internet service directly to his apartment. I'd prefer not to deal with the various city/county entities if I don't have to. We did everything by the book (we hired a builder, went through zoning, adhered to setbacks, etc) but I don't want to unintentionally trigger any sort of tax/assessment situation. 

How far from your house is the apartment?  I would think it's in your best interest to just run a long cat5 cable over for internet.  Your mesh access point should have a wired connection, and you can run cat5e up to 300 meters without noticable signal loss.

Carry on with splitting for the mail, though.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/29/22 1:26 p.m.

I did this a few years ago. I just called the county. Took about 5 minutes. That's it.

My shop has its own gas meter, so it needs its own address. To make it interesting, it's Unit B but there is no unit number on the house.

Shop shares power with the house, and the internet access is handled with a Ubiquiti Nanobridge, which acts exactly like a network cable as far as the network is concerned. I went with the wireless solution because there were questions about possible grounding problems with a cable.

Gzwg
Gzwg New Reader
11/29/22 1:37 p.m.

Just wanted to mention the Ubiquiti Wireless Devices as well, to get Internet between two buildings. Works well at a customer of mine. 
Can't help with the postal issues, Sorry
 

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
11/29/22 1:46 p.m.

You don't want to do a ground rod separate from the house ground. That's why code refers to it as bonding to ground. Say the garage ground being newer is a better ground than the house. If there's an electrical surge electricity will find the best ground. That could mean the surge passing from the modem to the garage ground and frying the modem in the process. By bonding to the house ground you are at the same ground potential for everything. In that case the surge tends to pass through the electric wires because they are thicker than twisted pair of coax cable and are the better path to ground. Seen the bad results of a ground rod too many times. That said I tell people I always see the problems. People don't have me come out because everything is working great. 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
11/29/22 2:31 p.m.

I use a pair of Ubiquiti Nano Station Loco wireless bridges - one in the house and one in the shop - to bridge the ~190 feet between the house and the shop. They're rated for such long distances that I just put them in the attic of each building rather than outside, and it worked great. They're PoE (Power over Ethernet) powered so the only cable running to each is a single cat 5.

I can't help too much on the address. I did have a similar situation once where I was working out of a shop behind a house and just had "rear" appended to the address. Eg "1234 Main St" and "1234 Main St Rear." Nothing official, but it worked most of the time.

dyintorace
dyintorace PowerDork
11/29/22 2:57 p.m.

I think I'm going to start a separate thread about internet access. That's the #1 issue at the moment. Solving that will take pressure off the address change question.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
11/29/22 3:09 p.m.

For the mail , why not just ask your regular mailman , 

he can tell you if its just a Post Office form or more involved , I am sure they have seen it before :)

Good Luck

added : my address has been screwed up for 30 years plus , the address on my 300 ft block is

4404 , 4402 and mine at 4406 ,  it  always confuses the temporary mailman  since they are not in the correct order !

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic HalfDork
11/29/22 3:37 p.m.
Stampie said:

You don't want to do a ground rod separate from the house ground. That's why code refers to it as bonding to ground. Say the garage ground being newer is a better ground than the house. If there's an electrical surge electricity will find the best ground. That could mean the surge passing from the modem to the garage ground and frying the modem in the process. By bonding to the house ground you are at the same ground potential for everything. In that case the surge tends to pass through the electric wires because they are thicker than twisted pair of coax cable and are the better path to ground. Seen the bad results of a ground rod too many times. That said I tell people I always see the problems. People don't have me come out because everything is working great.

 Don't want to high jack but, I have a boat house electrical panel with it's own ground rod connected to the cabin panel through 100 ft of aluminum cable. I should unhook the boat house ground rod? 

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
11/29/22 4:28 p.m.

In reply to VolvoHeretic :

I'm not an electrician so I'm not going to say for sure. I think you're ok. The problem is when the service provider (Phone/cable) is a different ground than the house. That provides two paths to ground for a surge and one of the paths leads through the service provider equipment. 

jgrewe
jgrewe Dork
11/29/22 5:03 p.m.

Are there any other internet providers, or does AT&T have the area locked up with a city contract? I think there are some tech ideas above that will probably work but another company would be easy too.

I would start with the post office and see how to handle a "mother in law" apartment on the books. They will probably be the only ones that will care. County appraiser's office would be next but I would avoid getting them involved if I could.

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
11/29/22 5:11 p.m.

I won't speak for service providers, but that is definitely incorrect for electrical grounds. 
 

A panel in a detached structure requires separate grounding rods. (Among other things)

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
11/29/22 5:19 p.m.

In a commercial building, there are as many paths to ground as there are electrical outlets. Every box is bonded to the metal building, and the building is literally tied to ground (and grounding rods)

Yes, electricity will always find the easiest path to ground.  But that doesn't say anything about there being multiple paths to ground. 
 

Stampie, the rules you've been taught are about trying to be as foolproof as possible to protect their equipment, not for electrical safety. 

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