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llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
4/22/22 4:01 p.m.
pheller said:
914Driver said:

Sided with the South in the Civil War, going with south y'all.

I'm not sure that alone qualifies states as being Southern, Midwestern, etc. 

I wouldn't consider Oklahoma as being southern, but it was Confederate. To me it's pretty solidly mid-west. 

I wouldn't consider AZ or NM as Southern just because they were Confederate, and I wouldn't consider California "northern" just because it sided with the Union. Southwest is Southern California's "Inland Empire", AZ, NM, NV, West Texas (Basin and Range), Southern Utah and Colorado. 

It's funny because when I think of the South, I think of areas that have mountains and hills, and/or don't have regular snow. Arkansas fits that criteria. 

FYI.... AZ and NM didn't exist as states until fifty-ish years after the Civil War....I don't think they picked a side. Were they still Mexico? I dunno.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
4/22/22 4:21 p.m.
llysgennad said:
pheller said:
914Driver said:

Sided with the South in the Civil War, going with south y'all.

I'm not sure that alone qualifies states as being Southern, Midwestern, etc. 

I wouldn't consider Oklahoma as being southern, but it was Confederate. To me it's pretty solidly mid-west. 

I wouldn't consider AZ or NM as Southern just because they were Confederate, and I wouldn't consider California "northern" just because it sided with the Union. Southwest is Southern California's "Inland Empire", AZ, NM, NV, West Texas (Basin and Range), Southern Utah and Colorado. 

It's funny because when I think of the South, I think of areas that have mountains and hills, and/or don't have regular snow. Arkansas fits that criteria. 

FYI.... AZ and NM didn't exist as states until fifty-ish years after the Civil War....I don't think they picked a side. Were they still Mexico? I dunno.

The US got most of the Western States after winning the war with Mexico just before the Civil War. The West was still wild after the Civil War. Some of it was Territory and not a State yet. Some was Indian Country. Some was still in dispute. A lot of former Confederates headed West seeking a new life after the war.

llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
4/22/22 4:31 p.m.

STM317
STM317 PowerDork
4/22/22 10:06 p.m.
Toyman! said:

It's Arkansas, who cares. 

Our Kansas : r/memes

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/22/22 11:20 p.m.
SV reX said:

In reply to 03Panther :

You didn't really answer the question. 
 

What is your understanding of the reason WV split from VA?

The discussion goes against the information that is taught by people that the moderators agree with, so I would not be allowed to voice what my family history indicates. I have no desire to get a fairly fun thread locked. I did explain why I differ with the popular opinion, and I think I could explain more, in a separate thread, but if folks on here start cussing me, like several (def. not you, or mr asa, thankfully) have been allowed to do on other threads,  my responses would get me banned.  
I will point out, as food for thought, that no one thinks the revolutionary war was fought over tea. 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/22/22 11:22 p.m.

In reply to llysgennad :

The map is hilarious laugh

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
4/22/22 11:27 p.m.

In reply to 03Panther :

I think you are overplaying it. 

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/22/22 11:53 p.m.
SV reX said:

In reply to 03Panther :

I think you are overplaying it. 

Since I replied to mr asa as carefully as I could, I don't think so. And since a lot of folks are aware of the mods bias, I don't think so there either. 
I know that makes the mods angry, but I'm not the only person to say so. 
I think I covered both things you might have meant. 
I prolly did over play my initial comment to mr asa, but, there is documentation to substantiate, even though not poplar, especially nowadays. 

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
4/23/22 8:01 a.m.

Oklahoma has ranches, oil fields and Indian Reservations. It has more in common with Texas than with any other Midwestern or Southern state. It is Western, or Southwestern.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/23/22 8:55 a.m.

I'll say it again - Sweet Tea

I challenge anyone to find a single thing that defines a region as Southern more than "tea" meaning sweet tea.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/23/22 9:03 a.m.

In reply to Beer Baron :

Grits.

 

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
4/23/22 9:10 a.m.

Sweet tea.

Grits.

Biscuits.

Charlie Daniels Band.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/23/22 9:18 a.m.
Toyman! said:

In reply to Beer Baron :

Grits.

Nah. I can get grits or biscuits and gravy all over the U.S.

But if I order "tea" in Ohio, I'm getting hot tea or iced tea, based on season. Even the "Hot Chicken" place is going to ask me what kind of tea I want.

 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
4/23/22 9:25 a.m.

In reply to Beer Baron :

You can't get good grits. Just some runny tasteless slop that northerners think is grits. 

AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
4/23/22 9:29 a.m.
SV reX said:

In reply to pheller :

I'm trying to follow you on the "OK was Confederate" thing. 
 

The Civil War was 1861-1865. OK was independent Indian Territory from 1834-1907. It was identified as the Oklahoma Territory (a US Jurisdiction) from 1890-1907. It was admitted to the Union on November 16, 1907 as the 46th state. 
 

I don't see it on any list of states that fought in the Confederacy. 
 

I think you need to reconsider that one. Oklahoma didn't exist during the Civil War.  

I know from Cherokee history that there were slave holders and plantation owners among those that were re-settled in Oklahoma and the official government of the tribe sided with the Confederacy.  It widened rifts within the tribe driving some feuds which still echo among tribal divisions today. Oklahoma did not exist as a state, but it did as Indian Territory and the nations comprising it still exist today.

Ross, Watie personified Cherokee schism

The Civil War in Cherokee Nation

How Native American Slaveholders Complicate the Trail of Tears Narrative

mtn
mtn MegaDork
4/23/22 9:34 a.m.

"Good Grits" is an oxymoron. Unless the small diners that I've ordered them in in Tennessee, North Carolina, and Texas, And Waffle House, and the southern restaurants in Chicagoland that I've been to, my sister-in-laws 88 year old grandma from South Carolina (though the grits were in NC), all couldn't get it right. 
 

They seemed to range from a 2/10 to a 5/10 if they had cheese and shrimp. 

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/23/22 9:37 a.m.

In reply to Toyman! :

Just as easy to find good grits here.

What we don't get are just sorta-decent grits. They're either bland crap at Bill Evans, or they're really good to great. There's no in between.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
4/23/22 10:06 a.m.

Eh, Waffle House grits are not good grits. Every time I get them, they're wicked lumpy and infused with cheap margarine.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
4/23/22 10:26 a.m.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/23/22 10:26 a.m.

Situation remains - I can go to a greasy diner in the south and the north and I can order grits, or fried chicken, or biscuits and gravy and tea.

We can argue about the quality of the grits, or chicken, or biscuits and gravy.

But in the South they'll bring me Sweet Tea, and in the North they'll bring me hot tea.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/23/22 10:40 a.m.

TIL that part of Canada is further south than part of California.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
4/23/22 12:14 p.m.
mtn said:

"Good Grits" is an oxymoron.

Cheese grits are good.  Regular grits, why bother?

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
4/23/22 2:57 p.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:
mtn said:

"Good Grits" is an oxymoron.

Cheese grits are good.  Regular grits, why bother?

I've had cheese grits at a church dinner that were a religious experience.  Make of that what you will.

psteav (Forum Supporter)
psteav (Forum Supporter) Dork
4/23/22 3:19 p.m.

In reply to preach (dudeist priest) :

Man, there's just so much correct about this post.

Ian F (Forum Supporter)
Ian F (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/23/22 6:59 p.m.

In reply to llysgennad :

The funniest one to me is the "got drunk and couldn't draw straight lines" one.  I guess they don't have rivers in Australia? 

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