LM: Getting a (private) pilot license

In reply to Dr. Hess :

Have a Snickers Hess. 

In reply to spitfirebill :

I was just trying to be helpful, Bill. 

In reply to Dr. Hess :

LMAO. Yeah I get it now. I have seen them complete and ready to fly with the little motor and minimal instrumentation down as low as 18K once in a while on Barnstormers.... not that that helps you of course.

Cool little planes, but the user experience with aeroinjector style carbs is pretty spotty. And even if the buy in cost is low, owning a flying machine is never cheap. 

Make it even more interesting:

02Pilot said:

In reply to frenchyd :

The only thing I ever got to fly with any real power was that T-6, and that was tame compared to what you were dealing with, but the twist of that big radial still caught me off-guard on takeoff. Thankfully it settled down once we were up. The two flights I had in that plane were probably the best I'll ever have.

We trained on those T6’s except we called them SNJ’s . Yes 600 horsepower is a lot  of torque to deal with. Now try and catch up to 2700 horsepower with not a whole lot more weight.  

The funny thing is he kept telling me how docile it was to fly.  Maybe compared to Jet fighters,  but a S2E has a 72 foot wingspan compared to the 50 foot wingspan of the Spad. And the rudder of my plane was three times as big.  That Spad was less than 1/2 the weight of a S2E 

There is not enough rudder or brakes to hold a SPAD straight on take off if you’re as ham fisted as I was. 

I'm not the best one to give advice here.  I went for my Private licensing in college and ran out of money before I finished.  I SHOULD HAVE finished, but I could never really get landings.  Preflight, taxi, takeoff, flight skills... aced them.  Landings?  Not so much.  And it's kind of important.

My amateur suggestions:  Learn on a trike, not a tail dragger... unless you're only going to fly vintage stuff.  Take your budget and add 75% to it.  I'm certain I could have gone solo if I had 3 more hours at the yoke, but I was broke.  I preferred learning on a low-wing.  The trim was more neutral and the viz was harder.  Sounds counter-intuitive, but its like learning to drive in a Lotus Esprit.  Then if you drive a minivan, you're like, "oh, this is easy."

The ONE thing I really wanted to do when I was young was get my pilots license.  It never happened after an early chance fell through.  Never enough money because of the wife and kids and mortgage etc etc etc.  my wife gave me a coupon for a free flying lesson for my 60th birthday.  If she had done that at my 50th I would have gone on for the sport pilot ticket.  

frenchyd said:

02Pilot said:

In reply to frenchyd :

The only thing I ever got to fly with any real power was that T-6, and that was tame compared to what you were dealing with, but the twist of that big radial still caught me off-guard on takeoff. Thankfully it settled down once we were up. The two flights I had in that plane were probably the best I'll ever have.

We trained on those T6’s except we called them SNJ’s . Yes 600 horsepower is a lot  of torque to deal with. Now try and catch up to 2700 horsepower with not a whole lot more weight.  

Oddly enough, the T-6 I flew was actually painted up as an SNJ. I believe it was used in the TV miniseries "War and Remembrance," and maybe some other project as well. This is it, at Dillingham Airfield on the north shore of Oahu.

Do it. It is the most satisfying thing that I have ever done. I flew for 19 years and 8500 hours before I berkeleyed up and lost my medical certificate. It is a bit pricey to get but I think that it would be a bargain at twice the price. As far as things going wrong, they do but that is why you get training. If you are well trained and know your limitations you can handle anything that comes up. A well maintained airplane does not fall apart in flight unless you exceed it's limitations. I had engine failures, landing gear extension failures, electrical failures and even control cable failures. You handle the problem land the airplane and when you are having a beer later you think " that could have been bad if I didn't know what to do. I would like to talk with you about it.Get in touch with me if you want. 

Braden

Brett_Murphy said:

Make it even more interesting:

A friend has an RV with a Wankel, sounds like a high speed blender, annoying when overhead,.

He also has a Fly Baby and a Cub though.  You can pick up a Fly Baby for $5-$10,000.

Braden is right. When you get training,  you learn to trust yourself,  possibly more than you ever have. 

I know I did. At 19, I was flying, all on my own. To have the responsibility of your life, and that of the people in your plane is huge. I always had fun, but I never screwed around. I knew what I and my plane could do, and didn't push. 

I remember the first time my instructor Aaron pulled  the power on me. I looked at him like he was nuts, tried to push the throttle,  but, nope, you just lost power, what do you do? This happened all the time in training. Same thing with weather, preflight,  etc...

I remember one day, I had a cross country to do. Got more and more behind.  Finally, just said screw it and canceled it. I thought tge old timers would give me crap. But they said good on you. We could see you were getting bogged down, rushed. We were going to say something, but you did right. That rush has killed a lot of pilots. Training taught me to recognize a deteriorating situation.

I miss it. Every day, I still look up. I can't wait to get back up there 

Pilot In Command.  Period.  Your call, no peer pressure BS.

Brandon’s right, nothing like it on Earth....

Many flight schools have an introductory price for your first flight. It will let you see if you like it or not. Maybe it isn't for you. Or maybe it's a life changing event.

In reply to Appleseed :

You were right to cancel the cross country, and always remember to fly the plane.   Engine quits? Fly the plane, got lost? Fly the plane. First and foremost fly the plane!   

When I was going down in that box canyon over the Rockies, I kept focusing on flying the plane, trading altitude for distance was a mental dance my training taught me to do. Learned when my instructor would pull back power during unexpected moments.  

There never was any panic because the part of your brain needed for panic was busy flying the plane.  Calculations were busy in parts of the brain left over after flying the plane, crowding out fear and panic.  

I got my first flying job in 1994 I had approximately 400 hours total time probably a hundred fifty of that in multi-engine airplanes. the first job I had was being a second-in-command or co-pilot in a Cessna 404 Titan. The company had a scheduled run twice a day at 7 a. M. And 7 p. M. from Muskegon Michigan to Rochester New York to deliver fuel injectors. There was almost always a trip at noon and midnight as well. When we get to Rochester we would call the office they would let us know and we would go back to Muskegon get a second load go to Rochester and then fly back to Flint and swap crews for the next trip. the airplane was capable of being flown single pilot but the regulations would only allow a single pilot to fly 8 hours it is about nine to nine and a half hours if you did both trips. If you have an airplane with two separate sets of flight instruments and a certified qualified co-pilot you can fly 10 hours hence me getting the job . Flying 45 to 50 hours per week an all-weather at gross weight you learn a lot very quick. We were on the day schedule for a week Sunday night schedule for a week and the third week you were on call. In less than a year I had  1, 200 hours and took my pilot-in-command check ride in a Cessna 310. The tradition at this particular charter company was the guy that just passed the check ride gets the next trip no matter where he is in the rotation I had just finished the check ride having a cup of tea or coffee with all the other guys and being congratulated When A call came in to go to O'Hare Airport in Chicago and pick up a 20 lb box from United Airlines and fly to Fort Wayne. My first pilot-in-command trip therefore was into O'Hare single pilot the day I pass my checkride the experience I had already serve me well it was a little bit intimidating but a very good experience. Within the next month or so I got my check out as second-in-command co-pilot in the Lear 24 that was a true eye-opener. Taking off that light weights it would climb an excess of 10000 feet per minute. We always treated it very seriously but I flew with a great bunch of Pilots eventually became a chief pilot at several companies and always always help train the new guys .make sure you get a good instructor

Braden 

Look into becoming a partner in an airplane or join a flying Club it really cuts the cost. My friend John Learned to Fly about 4 years ago and bought a one-fifth share of a Cessna 172. the other four Pilots rarely use it. a couple of the guys fly 5 hours per year 2 others 15 to 20 hours in it. John flies 100 to 200 hours per year so it is essentially his own airplane for one-fifth of the fixed cost. Fixed cost being Insurance ,Hangar rent and annual inspections.  Parts replaced and maintenance that is not scheduled they split it up according to the use of the airplane ,so John does pay the majority of that. 

Braden

At my medical school, I think 4 guys, mostly in my class, bought a Cesna something together.  Then they bought a MIG trainer, forget the exact name thing, but it was a 50's or 60's vintage.  Then they bought a MIG 21.  Hey, it was on sale.  The trainer was only $300/hr to fly.  The MIG 21 was going to be one large an hour.

In reply to pilotbraden :

Partnerships and clubs only make sense if you actually have the means and the time to fly extensively. 

Occasional, when you can afford it and have the time sort of flying is cheapest by renting  

In reply to frenchyd :

Very true. if you're learning how to fly you should fly several times a week otherwise you're relearning every time you go up and it takes a lot longer to learn . It does make sense to join a club or partnership at that point .when I learned how to fly in 1989 I rented a Cessna 150 that was owned by my instructor. I believe I got it for 17 an hour wet and 30 an hour with the instructor. I got my private in I believe 44 or 45 hours I flew three to four times per week. I also worked full-time and lived at Mom and Dad's I put everything I had into the flying.

I had a lot of fun sitting right seat on the 172 while pilotbraden was building hours.  I would love to learn to fly someday.  Need to get both of my boys through university first.

Dr. Hess said:

At my medical school, I think 4 guys, mostly in my class, bought a Cesna something together.  Then they bought a MIG trainer, forget the exact name thing, but it was a 50's or 60's vintage.  Then they bought a MIG 21.  Hey, it was on sale.  The trainer was only $300/hr to fly.  The MIG 21 was going to be one large an hour.

 

You can't get chicks at a bar with a Cessna, but Mach 2 with your hair on fire..? Sierra Hotel.

pilotbraden said:

In reply to frenchyd :

Very true. if you're learning how to fly you should fly several times a week otherwise you're relearning every time you go up and it takes a lot longer to learn . It does make sense to join a club or partnership at that point .when I learned how to fly in 1989 I rented a Cessna 150 that was owned by my instructor. I believe I got it for 17 an hour wet and 30 an hour with the instructor. I got my private in I believe 44 or 45 hours I flew three to four times per week. I also worked full-time and lived at Mom and Dad's I put everything I had into the flying.

That’s the way it has to be done if you want all the lessons to add up to safe flying.  Otherwise it’s too easy to forget critical elements. 

Sort of like learning a foreign language. An hour or two a week just won’t do it.  Total immersion is best. So you carve out a few months and go learn to fly, safely!  Then you need enough hours on a regular basis to keep from getting rusty.  

We would return from a deployment and three months later we’re back practicing our carrier landings. It didn’t matter how many you had in your last deployment. Those first ones were always a bit sketchy. 

I am from an aviation family and grew up around small planes (step father was a flight examiner).  A private pilots license is a bit like road racing.  It's certainly something to experience, but it will be hard to justify financially for any period of time or to make practical in any way.  One of my observations around the airport was that people who rented the planes either had really nice cars or really crappy cars (you either can afford to fly, or you struggle to afford to fly).

Flying is also as safe as you make it, you just have to be a lot safer then driving, mistakes will bite you a lot harder.  A flat tire is unlikely to cause issues in a car, a dead cylinder could kill you in a plane in the right situation (and the wrong reaction). Be VERY willing not to fly or proceed if you are uncertain.

As I have said before, one of my big suggestions is:  Learn to commit to a crash landing.  That is, if things get iffy, do NOT try to save the plane, do NOT try to keep it in the air as long as possible.  Commit to the landing/crash before you get to low and slow, screw the plane, save your butt.  Spend plenty of time practicing emergency procedures / situation, hopefully you will never need that skill.

In reply to frenchyd :

Never heard anyone call a Spad fast, but I guess coming from a Stoof it is.

In reply to aircooled :

Air-cooled is right. Pick out the place to crash. I was taught as you drive to the airport pay attention to the terrain. Look for power lines, fields, deep ditches etc. When you line up on the runway for takeoff pick a spot for the crash.  If something goes wrong fly to that spot while trying to solve the problem. I took more than a few copilots by surprise when I asked them where are you going to crash after taking off?