I remember a few years ago talking to a company's HR person. They were looking for a mechanical engineer with 3-5 years experience but they also had to have experience with at least 2 years experience with SolidEdge, at least 3 years of experience within engineering with military shelters and some other qualifications. I had everything they wanted but the military shelters experience and was told they had to have all the qualifications. I still wonder how long it took them to find someone.
In reply to tuna55 :
If they want any kind of experience they are going to have to pay for it. More importantly, if they want to keep the people they have trained they are going to have to give them a reason to stay. That comes from money, atmosphere, bonuses, or some other tangible advantage.
In reply to Toyman! :
Yeah I got it. It's awful because not only are they understaffed and behind on everything, but this is a trade we need to be training people on. The need for good machinists and toolmakers is never going down, but the talent pool is shrinking. When Target pays more, it only makes that situation worse.
Apparently a piece of plywood fell over and leaned against my truck. It wasn't noticed until i got home and dad had borrowed it.
Now i get to repair and repaint the whole berkeleying bedside. Of the nicest truck ive ever owned. With time and money i don't have.
That is a kick in the dick, and im trying not to make dad feel guilty since it was my berkeleying fault i leaned plywood there against the carport in the first place.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
ain't happenin' jackson .....Dad was born at night...but not last night
tuna55 said:In reply to Toyman! :
Yeah I got it. It's awful because not only are they understaffed and behind on everything, but this is a trade we need to be training people on. The need for good machinists and toolmakers is never going down, but the talent pool is shrinking. When Target pays more, it only makes that situation worse.
When an entire generation is told in school "Go to college or flip burgers the rest of your life" this is what we get.
Appleseed said: an entire generation
At least two
Well, the upside to being diagnosed with c-spine issues is that if someone asks me if my head is screwed on right, I can truthfully reply, "No actually, it isn't."
Object-oriented programming. I need to get way better at it in order to keep my job. I understand the concept at a high level. But actually working on it is an ADD-fueled nightmare. Chasing down whatever my class has to inherit from and what to include, and how whatever is in those classes work, so I can use the functions inside them properly does not work well for me. It's like trying to find info in (or write) 100 1 page documents, when my brain works a lot better with a single 100 page document.
It's to the point where if I could switch careers and make anywhere near as much money as I do right now, I'd jump. My entire field has gone this direction, so it's not like I can just switch to another company, either. Generally, I'm pretty good at picking up new info and adapting, but I have made several attempts at this in the last 20 years, and for some reason, I just can't reliably get it, and now my job is at stake. To say I am stressed out is a massive understatement.
Me: "Hey kids for the 4,240,348th time don't eat at the computer. It makes the keyboard/mouse nasty and attracts bugs that like electronics."
Kids: ..."...okay Dad..."
Kids at the computer desk 30 minutes later:
Toyman! said:tuna55 said:eastsideTim said:dculberson said:tuna55 said:We have a shortage of good machinists here. The kind who can operate a hand mill and also program a CNC. My BIL sells cars and is underemployed. I ask about the pay range, they start at something like $14/hr.
OK dude, you want skilled labor which requires real intelligence, reading drawings, hitting tolerances, setting up machines, designing fixtures, cutting all manner of different metals, and you're paying less than Target and Starbucks? So, you should fix that.
HA! That's pretty good. The same person with those skills could do any of a few dozen different jobs and make multiples of $14/hour. I can't even fathom why any company would think they could get away with paying that.
It's been that way for ages. Around 8-10 years ago when I was looking into a career change, they were paying $10/hour, so maybe a bit more than fast food at the time, but not by much.
And, not to get overtly political, is where it gets all muddy. I'm pretty conservative, and everyone here knows that, but when I point out a reality like that, when all of the conservatives are shouting things about lazy millenials, is completely dismissed. I'm not preaching about a living wage or a equity in income or redistribution of wealth, just that, you know, we pay people for what they are worth, and sometimes that changes.
Oddly enough the same company pays me quite well.
I don't get it. I might not ever.
Are they trying to hire experienced machinists at $14/hr or warm bodies they hope they can teach?
For someone with zero experience, I start at $14. They are a net loss for the first 6 months, minimum. Yes, they can probably make more digging ditches or flipping burgers, but if they aren't smart enough to see the difference between a dead-end job and a career I don't want them. You hope you find a good one but the odds are frequently not in your favor. If you are super lucky they will show up to work every day. The last two guys I hired made $14/hr for less than 6 months and have gotten multiple $1+/hr raises and decent bonuses since then and are now making substantially more.
Dealing with this at my company too. You mentioned warm bodies starting at $14/hr, that works out to ~$28k/yr. That is not a liveable wage (i used to say in most of the country, after the last two years i feel comfortable applying it to the whole nation). You cannot get a 1br apartment, eat, and commute to work on $28k/yr.
But even assuming these are teenagers living at home and working towards a better position, what does an experienced machinist get? Not your shop all star or A-team, just the average experienced machinist that does their job. If its under $30/hr, they are underpaid. Your rockstar lead guy should be at $50+/hr these days.
If not, the problem isn't that no one wants to work, it's that you're cheap. (You're is intended in the collective sense here, not directed at Toyman or anyone in this thread.) Most of my post above is a paraphrased conversation I had with our hiring group at work for similar positions. They seem to think professional workers should be grateful for $20/hr, but it's 2022, not 1992.
Flynlow (FS) said:Toyman! said:tuna55 said:eastsideTim said:dculberson said:tuna55 said:We have a shortage of good machinists here. The kind who can operate a hand mill and also program a CNC. My BIL sells cars and is underemployed. I ask about the pay range, they start at something like $14/hr.
OK dude, you want skilled labor which requires real intelligence, reading drawings, hitting tolerances, setting up machines, designing fixtures, cutting all manner of different metals, and you're paying less than Target and Starbucks? So, you should fix that.
HA! That's pretty good. The same person with those skills could do any of a few dozen different jobs and make multiples of $14/hour. I can't even fathom why any company would think they could get away with paying that.
It's been that way for ages. Around 8-10 years ago when I was looking into a career change, they were paying $10/hour, so maybe a bit more than fast food at the time, but not by much.
And, not to get overtly political, is where it gets all muddy. I'm pretty conservative, and everyone here knows that, but when I point out a reality like that, when all of the conservatives are shouting things about lazy millenials, is completely dismissed. I'm not preaching about a living wage or a equity in income or redistribution of wealth, just that, you know, we pay people for what they are worth, and sometimes that changes.
Oddly enough the same company pays me quite well.
I don't get it. I might not ever.
Are they trying to hire experienced machinists at $14/hr or warm bodies they hope they can teach?
For someone with zero experience, I start at $14. They are a net loss for the first 6 months, minimum. Yes, they can probably make more digging ditches or flipping burgers, but if they aren't smart enough to see the difference between a dead-end job and a career I don't want them. You hope you find a good one but the odds are frequently not in your favor. If you are super lucky they will show up to work every day. The last two guys I hired made $14/hr for less than 6 months and have gotten multiple $1+/hr raises and decent bonuses since then and are now making substantially more.
Dealing with this at my company too. You mentioned warm bodies starting at $14/hr, that works out to ~$28k/yr. That is not a liveable wage (i used to say in most of the country, after the last two years i feel comfortable applying it to the whole nation). You cannot get a 1br apartment, eat, and commute to work on $28k/yr.
But even assuming these are teenagers living at home and working towards a better position, what does an experienced machinist get? Not your shop all star or A-team, just the average experienced machinist that does their job. If its under $30/hr, they are underpaid. Your rockstar lead guy should be at $50/hr these days.
If not, the problem isn't that no one wants to work, it's that you're cheap. You're is intended in the collective sense here, not directed at Toyman or anyone in this thread. Most of my post above is a paraphrased conversation I had with our hiring group at work for similar positions. They seem to think professional workers should be grateful for $20/hr, but it's 2022, not 1992.
Absolutely correct. The employers complaining that "no one wants to work anymore" are willfully ignorant of the fact that no one wants to work for starvation wages anymore.
Costco's min wage is $17/hr and a warehouse worker at Target likely makes $20+. Why do you have an expectation that a skilled labor track would make less than that?
In reply to calteg :
And Costco has pretty decent benefits as well. A lot of these places paying $14 an hour don't even offer a 401k, which is astounding to me. Not that $14 an hour is enough to really save, but if it is a teenager living at home it definitely is.
It's been over a year, there were WEEKS over winter they did nothing, and still promised June.
House STILL isn't done. It's absolute bull at this point, they drag their feet all the time. I watched their contract repair the back steps (they broke them backing into them with the trailer) and he took 16 hours to replace them. He reused the boards I cut and drilled and with a second man it took him 16 hours to complete it. The whole time there were things that needed to be done inside the house but apparently wasting 2 days replacing stairs was more important.
I just want to go home and live in my own house again.
Flynlow (FS) said:Toyman! said:tuna55 said:eastsideTim said:dculberson said:tuna55 said:We have a shortage of good machinists here. The kind who can operate a hand mill and also program a CNC. My BIL sells cars and is underemployed. I ask about the pay range, they start at something like $14/hr.
OK dude, you want skilled labor which requires real intelligence, reading drawings, hitting tolerances, setting up machines, designing fixtures, cutting all manner of different metals, and you're paying less than Target and Starbucks? So, you should fix that.
HA! That's pretty good. The same person with those skills could do any of a few dozen different jobs and make multiples of $14/hour. I can't even fathom why any company would think they could get away with paying that.
It's been that way for ages. Around 8-10 years ago when I was looking into a career change, they were paying $10/hour, so maybe a bit more than fast food at the time, but not by much.
And, not to get overtly political, is where it gets all muddy. I'm pretty conservative, and everyone here knows that, but when I point out a reality like that, when all of the conservatives are shouting things about lazy millenials, is completely dismissed. I'm not preaching about a living wage or a equity in income or redistribution of wealth, just that, you know, we pay people for what they are worth, and sometimes that changes.
Oddly enough the same company pays me quite well.
I don't get it. I might not ever.
Are they trying to hire experienced machinists at $14/hr or warm bodies they hope they can teach?
For someone with zero experience, I start at $14. They are a net loss for the first 6 months, minimum. Yes, they can probably make more digging ditches or flipping burgers, but if they aren't smart enough to see the difference between a dead-end job and a career I don't want them. You hope you find a good one but the odds are frequently not in your favor. If you are super lucky they will show up to work every day. The last two guys I hired made $14/hr for less than 6 months and have gotten multiple $1+/hr raises and decent bonuses since then and are now making substantially more.
Dealing with this at my company too. You mentioned warm bodies starting at $14/hr, that works out to ~$28k/yr. That is not a liveable wage (i used to say in most of the country, after the last two years i feel comfortable applying it to the whole nation). You cannot get a 1br apartment, eat, and commute to work on $28k/yr.
But even assuming these are teenagers living at home and working towards a better position, what does an experienced machinist get? Not your shop all star or A-team, just the average experienced machinist that does their job. If its under $30/hr, they are underpaid. Your rockstar lead guy should be at $50+/hr these days.
If not, the problem isn't that no one wants to work, it's that you're cheap. (You're is intended in the collective sense here, not directed at Toyman or anyone in this thread.) Most of my post above is a paraphrased conversation I had with our hiring group at work for similar positions. They seem to think professional workers should be grateful for $20/hr, but it's 2022, not 1992.
Based on that, and my slight knowledge of their salaries, we're cheap.
In reply to tuna55 :
Us too :).
Hey Boss, the transmission in my truck is acting a little weird.
Two and a half weeks for the new dishwasher to get here. Installer sees an error, leaves anyway, says let or sit 15 minutes, plug it back in and hit restart button. I wait an hour. Still showing same error. Installer won't answer his phone.
I will NOT throw this through Lowes doors. I will NOT throw this through Lowes doors. I will NOT throw this through Lowes doors.
tuna55 said:Yeah I got it. It's awful because not only are they understaffed and behind on everything, but this is a trade we need to be training people on.
They actively recruit general labourers from within for skilled and semi skilled positions where I work. Last weekend they promoted one of the parts cleaners into full time painting, think automotive paint, because she'd expressed an interest (which was good timing because someone gave notice), and hired a 19yr old girl straight out of a welding course and paired her with an experienced guy to work as a welder. They have to because they're competing for a smaller group of people all the time, and the decent ones already have good jobs making real money. Most of our maintenance team were also promoted from within. In that respect I think they're pretty smart. The starting pay is not great, though not $14 bad, and they do reward people who deserve it.
Honda dealer lady calls me - are you still interested in a Civic Si? We have a white one coming into the dealer in 8 weeks. Details?
$36,800 plus taxes and fees. Ok, thanks.
I'm finding this all to be entertaining.
Had a biopsy today, berkeley that's uncomfortable. Watching the needle thrust around on the screen is no treat either.
I'm taking bets with myself on which thread gets locked by Saturday.
Replacing the PCV valve seems to have reduced oil consumption on the jeep. Yay!
The temp was climbing in traffic last Tuesday. Coolant was low so I topped off the overflow and everything was good.
Today it started running hot again, this time in the highway. Not just warm, but the needle was edging up to the red, and would then drop. Checked coolant level after dinner, when it had cooled off enough to remove the radiator cap and saw this:
Took almost a gallon to fill the radiator, and another 1/2 gallon for the reservoir.
Now I know what I'm trying to diagnose and fix this weekend. ☹️
In reply to tuna55 :
Let me put it this way, our internal shop went through 30+ people to get 2. Half of them didn't show up to the interview, they already had jobs elsewhere. The other 13 or so could not pass the written or hand skills tests. I understand that we pay over $20 to start. The experienced guys are well over $30. The top guys have to be in the $40 per hour range, and I think we are low for the area.
Let me rephrase that, I know a CNC guy who bought a nice big house on the lake. He was well into the six figure range, $50+ hour plus a good bit of overtime. He is the top guy at an aerospace-medical-etc high end machine shop.
My apprentice will make 6 figures this year.
We hired a guy during the pandemic who only lasted a few months. When I asked why he was leaving he said, it's a decent job, but there's no overtime. I expected to make $150k.
It's a good time to be a millwright. As I'm preparing to retire...
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