Recommend me an SUV...

Looks like I'm slowly losing the fight to use my CJ as a DD (why did I ever think that was a good idea?), so it looks like I'll be buying a small sports car for cash and we'll borrow money for an SUV (for various reasons, we don't want an Outback or similar - basically my wife hates station wagons).

Parameters would be:

• Has to be good in snow. Singly most important point, and I need decent ground clearance for that, too.
• Available for less than $25k w/ less than 100k miles and must be 2001-on
• I don't really want another pickup truck, the last one we had didn't work that well for us
• Should be able to tow 5000lbs+
• Must be utterly, utterl bullet proof. No cars that need to go to the shop every three week for electrical or other gremlins. Something that survives on routine and preventative maintenance forever would be good. We're basically not planning to replace it until it falls apart and the longer that takes the better.
• Reasonable size - my wife wasn't too keen on driving the full size truck we had last year. Cherokee/Grand Cherokee sized would be great, but we'll trade fuel consumption and size for reliabilty. That said, Excursions/Suburbans are simply too big, No minivans either, that's the quickest way to get divorced for me.

The one SUV that would tick all the boxes would be a Land Cruiser - I know they have a drinking problem but I also believe that even the newer ones with the V8s are still capable of very high miles without problems. Any other suggestions or should I just way for the right Land Cruiser?

Edit: I noticed that Tim Suddard really seems to like his Ridgeline, which I believe is based on the Honda Pilot. As we don't want a pickup truck, what about a Honda Pilot? They seem to be a lot cheaper than a Land Cruiser, but how do they hold up to long-term use?

Our 2007 4-runner has been bulletproof for its first 80k miles - v8, awd. It was around $29k new, so finding a used one in your range should be ok. 7500 lb towing - I've towed a few cars with an awful u-haul car trailer - it handled it just fine. The bridgestone all seasons it came with weren't the greatest in snow. The new yokos should be a lot better. It's quiet, comfortable - even cross-country. Averages about 17 mpg.

nissan pathfinder and they didn't try to kill my family like the 4runner did (split rack and pinion at 120K)

Apart from being specifically excluded, my Expedition easily meets your requirements..

It tows well over 5000lbs, seats 7, snow is not an issue, 210K and it runs like its new, 17 mpg is not great but its not horrible for the size either.

Otherwise get a Toyota.

Sounds like you are looking at a 4Runner. My mom has one. My girlfriends dad has one. They've both been put through more than their fair share of abuse. Can't recommend it enough, I see moms or her dads in my future whenever one of them is ready to sell if it is in more than a year.

On your Pilot vs. Land Cruiser discussion... Not even in the same ballpark. Pilot is basically a tall car with all wheel drive. Land Cruiser is 100 percent ZAV. Not to say that it isn't a great vehicle--it is--but if you are comparing the Pilot to a Toyota, you are comparing it to a Highlander.

FJs and X-Terras would fit your criteria. I bought my wife an 06 X-Terra.SE for under 15 with 52k miles last year. Only draw back the thing has is pretty much everything is hard plastic though I like it because I throw all my dirty camping gear and car parts in the back. It is pretty capable off road in the desert here and will accelerate to 70 pretty well even with 600lbs in the back and 2 200+ guys up front. Oh and its quiet at 75 that's a huge thing in my book for highway driving

Despite the clamor over its introduction, the Ridgeline seems to have faded into relative obscurity. This fact makes it much more desirable in my eyes. Seems like it would make a great compromise between an actual truck and a family hauler. And then there's this: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2008/11/honda-ridgeline.html

$25K buys a REAL nice Tahoe. Low miles, new enough to still have some warranty. Tows 7k, gets better milege than the land cruiser and is cheap to fix.

There really is no other SUV in my mind than an XJ Cherokee, but an early '90s 4Runner with that Camry V6 is just about the same level of indestructibility. Parts are probably a little more expensive, and they rust just as badly as XJs, but they're a little bigger (I think?).

Land Rover?

Jeep Liberty, Ford Escape With tow package. Grand Cherokee Ford Explorer

$25K SUV budget... that sent me off looking for Cayenne GTS's (6 spd manual fun!). Unfortunately, the cheapest I found was in the low 40's and haven't found a manual yet...

I would agree on a Tahoe. Not really my cup of tea, but being realistic these days, you are darned near as likely to get a needy Japanese SUV as an American one... and the US model will be much cheaper to maintain, better mileage and more tolerant of abuse.

Otherwise, 2nd or 3rd generation 4Runner.

No one else has mentioned it, Hyundai Sante Fe. Ours is a 2005 with 170K virtually trouble free miles. One front axle and rear diff replaced under warranty. Other than that just regular maintenance. 22-23 mpg, has towed 4000# load through the mountains with no issues. IIRC $23-4K out the door with 1% finance from Hyundai.

Ian F wrote: $25K SUV budget... that sent me off looking for Cayenne GTS's (6 spd manual fun!). Unfortunately, the cheapest I found was in the low 40's and haven't found a manual yet...

I've seen Cayennes for less than 20k over in CA, but the running costs are not that great as I've been told by someone who owns a Cayenne Turbo. Plus the ones in the budget don't quite fit with my CU's lending criteria (usually too many miles).

Ian F wrote: I would agree on a Tahoe. Not really my cup of tea, but being realistic these days, you are darned near as likely to get a needy Japanese SUV as an American one... and the US model will be much cheaper to maintain, better mileage and more tolerant of abuse. Otherwise, 2nd or 3rd generation 4Runner.

Cheaper maintenance is certainly a factor, but I have no problem paying for keeping up on the maintenance if I don't have to pay to get stuff fixed outside the regular mainteance schedule all the time. Kinda rules out Landrovers I guess although I really wouldn't mind a Disco.

Don49 wrote: No one else has mentioned it, Hyundai Sante Fe. Ours is a 2005 with 170K virtually trouble free miles. One front axle and rear diff replaced under warranty. Other than that just regular maintenance. 22-23 mpg, has towed 4000# load through the mountains with no issues. IIRC $23-4K out the door with 1% finance from Hyundai.

That's an interesting thought, especially given that there is a Hyundai dealer in Carson City (next bigger town from us).

BoxheadTim wrote:

Ian F wrote: $25K SUV budget... that sent me off looking for Cayenne GTS's (6 spd manual fun!). Unfortunately, the cheapest I found was in the low 40's and haven't found a manual yet...

I wasn't looking at regular Cayennes - only the GTS, since it was/is available in V8/6spd spec. The base V6 is also available with a manual, but I'm guessing that spec is even rarer than the GTS. SUV's are really not my thing (I'm a van guy), so the only ones I pay attention to are the ones that stand out or I have some history with (Cayenne, Toureg V10 TDI or early 4Runner).

Good point on the Hyundai. I don't know of anyone who owns a Hyundai who has been unhappy with it.

No additional vehicle to list, but I'd think you're looking for something AWD as opposed to 4WD. Having driven both in snow, AWD wrecks traditional selectible 4x4.

BoxheadTim wrote:

Don49 wrote: No one else has mentioned it, Hyundai Sante Fe. Ours is a 2005 with 170K virtually trouble free miles. One front axle and rear diff replaced under warranty. Other than that just regular maintenance. 22-23 mpg, has towed 4000# load through the mountains with no issues. IIRC $23-4K out the door with 1% finance from Hyundai.

That's an interesting thought, especially given that there is a Hyundai dealer in Carson City (next bigger town from us).

A guy I know has a Santa Fe and it is on its 6th transmission in under 100k miles. It is a 05 or 06.

Osterkraut wrote: No additional vehicle to list, but I'd think you're looking for something AWD as opposed to 4WD. Having driven both in snow, AWD wrecks traditional selectible 4x4.

Maybe. The CJ is AWD, the truck I had last winter was 4WD, both worked fine so far but I can see why AWD might have a slight edge.

93EXCivic wrote: A guy I know has a Santa Fe and it is on its 6th transmission in under 100k miles.

That's interesting. A lady I know (my wife) happens to have a 2011 Sonata. It's on its second transmission (car has 12,000 miles on it) and the car recently visited the dealer for work on tranny number 2. It got there on a rollback. At least the Roadside Assistance program picked up the tab.

Diesel grand cherokees are in that range now used. They get killer, killer mpg (30 on the highway!) and can tow well over 5000 pounds.

I don't know about reliabilty, but it sounds like the perfect fit :D

HiTempguy wrote: Diesel grand cherokees are in that range now used. They get killer, killer mpg (30 on the highway!) and can tow well over 5000 pounds. I don't know about reliabilty, but it sounds like the perfect fit :D

Any idea if we got these below you guys?

We bought a new 2WD Pilot EX for around $25k a few years ago. It works great for us, and is super reliable, but I can't see towing 5000lbs regularly with one. Its pretty comfortable at up to 3000lbs. The rear springs are fairly soft to give it a good ride, but it squats pretty hard with a load in the trunk or a decent tongue weight. Other than the towing limit I'd say its right up your alley - mid sized, comfortable DD, decent mileage for an SUV, available AWD.

Similarly my sister has a Mazda Tribute (Escape), don't think that would tow 5k safely either. Same for the older Highlanders, although the 2012 is rated to 5k with a tow package.

You need something more truck-based with a frame: Pathfinder, 4-Runner, etc. What are you towing, how often, and what kind of terrain?

$25k is a fair amount of money for a used truck. Toyota Sequoias were fairly expensive new, but I would think that would get you into one. I think a few years or engine/trans combos had some issues, but that should we well documented on the web. They feel like a quality vehicle from the inside.

In reply to HiTempguy:

It does sound like a perfect fit but all the ones I can find in a 500 mile radius and within my budget are 2WD .

MattGent wrote: You need something more truck-based with a frame: Pathfinder, 4-Runner, etc. What are you towing, how often, and what kind of terrain?

Car + trailer, rarely, but most likely over the Sierra Nevada. Wimpy tow vehicles need not apply.

MattGent wrote: $25k is a fair amount of money for a used truck. Toyota Sequoias were fairly expensive new, but I would think that would get you into one. I think a few years or engine combos had some issues, but that should we well documented on the web. They feel like a quality vehicle from the inside.

I've seen them for that sort of money, ideally I'd like one size smaller than a Sequoia as my wife isn't comfortable driving something that big.