Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
3/6/19 4:15 p.m.

Our non-union shop works 55-60 hours a week fabricating our parts.  

One of the other outside sales guy buys them dinner or lunch on Saturday’s once in a while.  Now I got guys hitting me up for food in order “to get” my orders rushed out.  Then they mention the other guy buys fried chicken for them.  One guy tapped me for $20 the other day   

So I’m in the other sales guys office arguing about fried chicken.   I’m getting too old for this E36 M3 but I did however buy paczkis for Fat Tuesday as it’s a local tradition I do yearly   

 

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
3/6/19 4:52 p.m.

Union, non-union isn't the issue, it's ethics.  They don't have any.

Do they have a competitor?

jharry3
jharry3 Reader
3/6/19 5:04 p.m.

Entitlement mentality.   Its the ruination.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
3/6/19 5:10 p.m.

kickbacks?  pay to play..

 

no deal...  That stuff doesn't fly in my world.  It needs to get squashed fast.

 

You want to buy donuts every once in a while... cool..  Just make sure everyone gets them.. and not a select group.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
3/6/19 5:32 p.m.

I used to do Outside Sales, 1 year in steel followed by 4 in auto parts. When I brought food to a client, it was for *everybody*. Enough donuts, pizza, popsicles, etc to make sure everybody got one and then some. If I ever had any promo things like hats I'd the manufacturer up for enough to outfit an entire crew or I'd give them back. My customer shops were all really great, my employers were not. The newer guys have no such ethics and it's costing them sales and shops. I don't miss the game, but I still visit some of my best shops just to say hi, even though it's been almost 2 years since I sold.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
3/6/19 5:33 p.m.

Paczkis rule. The rest is bullE36 M3. 

Fellas, I'll TREAT you to food once in a while. Try to extort food from me by toying production orders with me and you not only get nothing from me, you will have things taken away. Do not berkeley with me.

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
3/6/19 5:50 p.m.

On Saturday’s I would use a McDonalds survey coupon and get a free Egg McMuffin after buying one.  

So I would walk to the shop and give it away hoping to eventually give everyone one to eat over time.  Then a guy starts bitching that the other guy already got one ahead of his.  

berkeley this noise so I start eating two McMuffins only get a stomachache 3 hours later.   So I had to stop buying egg McMuffins.    Then the fried chicken complaints started......LOL

spin_out
spin_out HalfDork
3/6/19 5:51 p.m.

Wasn’t there a line on “House of cards” along the lines of , I reward good behavior not bad. 

wawazat
wawazat HalfDork
3/6/19 6:11 p.m.

This is my 21st year in 100% commission outside sales of capital equipment.  I am NEVER the “bring the donuts” sales guy.  I hate that sales stereotype and actively work to shut it down within my customers if it ever pops up.  The decision maker never makes that type of request in my experience.  

I fully agree with FBC that it cannot exist in your manufacturing/assembly group. That’s gotta stop quick.  Manufacturing doesn’t dictate customer deliveries based on bribes. 

STM317
STM317 SuperDork
3/7/19 3:46 a.m.

Every situation is different, and I'm not going to condone extortion, but if I'm working 55-60hrs/wk to fill your orders and make you commission, it would be nice to know that you appreciate the effort and time and sacrifice on my end. I've been the guy that has to follow through when a salesman oversells something, or promises a customer something without understanding how feasible that promise may be and it's always annoying. The reality is that sales people set the expectation, and then it becomes somebody else's problem to make that expectation a reality. If the customer's expectation is realistic, then it's usually no big deal to make it happen, but realistic expectations don't always get the sale and salespeople are kind of notorious for over promising to close a deal. Hopefully that's not you.

wawazat
wawazat HalfDork
3/7/19 8:35 a.m.

Nope, that's not how I operate in sales.  Probably why I've been doing it so long!  Again, in my experience the over promise/under deliver types don't last long in sales.  To your work hours note, if sales didn't sell it, you wouldn't be working that many hours and getting paid.  Appreciation for both roles should be a given.  Extortion and bribery have no place in this situation and that was to the OP's point.     

I agree that every situation is different and to counter your comments above STM317, I've been on a lot of follow-up calls, meetings, and even service work where manufacturing and engineering releases a product that is not yet ready for the prime time.  As I'm 100% commission, these are unpaid calls that take away my commission which is my sole source of income and reduce the time I have to sell more products which is the only way I earn money.  I may gain some individual kudos/credibility for doing that which may or may not give me an edge in that next sales situation with that customer.  

STM317
STM317 SuperDork
3/7/19 8:59 a.m.
wawazat said:

Nope, that's not how I operate in sales.  Probably why I've been doing it so long!  Again, in my experience the over promise/under deliver types don't last long in sales.  To your work hours note, if sales didn't sell it, you wouldn't be working that many hours and getting paid.  Appreciation for both roles should be a given.  Extortion and bribery have no place in this situation and that was to the OP's point.     

I agree that every situation is different and to counter your comments above STM317, I've been on a lot of follow-up calls, meetings, and even service work where manufacturing and engineering releases a product that is not yet ready for the prime time.  As I'm 100% commission, these are unpaid calls that take away my commission which is my sole source of income and reduce the time I have to sell more products which is the only way I earn money.  I may gain some individual kudos/credibility for doing that which may or may not give me an edge in that next sales situation with that customer.  

I'm not saying it should be an expectation or that rewards need to be common. I'm not even saying that it has to be anything material. But taking some time to show some appreciation in some way for those that work hard to facilitate your living can only help. Maybe it's sincerely thanking somebody verbally. Maybe it's doing something in your power that you know will help to ease some of the burden on the production people. Maybe you setup a pitch in where everybody brings osmething and you bring your famous "Insert delicious treat here". You can have a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" kind of relationship where everybody benefits without having to shell out for food or whatever.

There's an awful lot of "me first" mentality in the section that I bolded. In my experience that's not uncommon among commissioned sales people, but then they expect everybody else to be a "team player" and support them. It doesn't take much exposure to that attitude for a person to think that the only thing a salesperson cares about is their commission, and that's not going to motivate most production people. I think pretty much everybody understands that we're all looking out for #1 first, but if it seems like that's all you're concerned with, then it can become a problem. That adversarial relationship can make things pretty toxic for everybody. Showing some appreciation in some way, and making the production people feel like they're more than just cogs in your money making machine can only help you.

pinchvalve
pinchvalve MegaDork
3/7/19 9:41 a.m.

The problem your boss, that guy is gaming the system successfully because no one in management is putting a stop to it. I don't fault him for trying to do everything he can to close orders and help his customers, but as a sales manager, that crap doesn't fly with me. I have production schedules, special orders, material counts, inventory allotments...lots of things that get thrown out of whack when production breaks the rules. Maybe I get one more order from him, but I might lose 5 orders from other salespeople.  Plus, he's wasting his time working deals out in production and getting people to like him, he should be in the field or on the phone.  I pay people to schedule production...do your job, they will do theirs.  If you want to do someone else's job, how about accounts receivable? Get the money from your customers dude. 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
3/7/19 11:11 a.m.

I’m firm on limiting my freebies.  Do your job - you get paid.  Are you annoyed you make less?  

Slug through 5 years of college to get your BS, spend 5 years working an inside sales desk to learn the product and how to deal with customers, then spend 15 years traveling and living in hotels figuring you were away 1,200 nights, then take this local sales gig that is mainly commission.   It all comes with a price.

Our location is messed up and our branch manager is where it starts.  

adam525i
adam525i Reader
3/7/19 11:28 a.m.
93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
3/7/19 12:21 p.m.

At the shop I work for, one of our product lines is high wear augers for abrasive conveyance - yep, its that exciting.

Anywho, I sold one with a ridiculously short lead time because it was a new customer and they were down.  Parts came in, I asked the shop supervisor when it would be done.  No one to do the welding, 3-4 weeks, etc.  He told me if I wanted it done faster I would have to weld it myself.

Saturday AM found me with a welding jacket and helmet welding up the auger to get it out the door on Monday.  All worked great.

Best part of the story was considering I got three augers welded up before Noon on Saturday and the best our regular welder could do was 1 a day or so, the regular operator got mad at me for beating rate so badly.  

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy UltimaDork
3/7/19 1:07 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Ha ha - I’ve cut gaskets, packed boxes, hand cut rubber strips, and cleaned hydraulic hoses out with our pellet foam gun but I draw the line at welding hoses.  (I suck)

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
3/7/19 3:22 p.m.

If that issue ever came to my desk in my company (yes it is my company) I would instruct accounting to cut you your final paycheck and you would be escorted out the door.  I don't care who your are.  It is a reflection on me and my company.  

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