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carguy123
carguy123 PowerDork
4/25/12 6:41 p.m.

ABC has been running a series of article on Bringing America Back.

For instance they've given a list of suppliers that would allow builders to build a home with 100% American products. Here's another one that will have you scratching your head.

Building Bridges

Why did I title this Speaking of Politics . . .? cause that's where it will end up.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/25/12 6:55 p.m.

Solution: Non-union American workers.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
4/25/12 7:36 p.m.

can we not jump on the no union bandwagon... yes, there are some bad ones.. but most fly under the radar because they do not do anything that makes them look bad. IATSE, the one I belong to, is one of them

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy SuperDork
4/25/12 7:39 p.m.

Things cost United Statesians taxpayers more when you don't buy from all Americans, including those of us from north of the 49th.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
4/25/12 7:44 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: can we not jump on the no union bandwagon... yes, there are some bad ones.. but most fly under the radar because they do not do anything that makes them look bad. IATSE, the one I belong to, is one of them

This. I know there are some bad and unnecessary unions out there but I know that some are needed. United Mine Workers comes to mind.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
4/25/12 7:45 p.m.

Also as far as bringing America back, we need to have engineers running the businesses not accountants and lawyers.

poopshovel
poopshovel PowerDork
4/25/12 8:05 p.m.

Lol @ "America's crumbling infrastructure." Sorry man. My blood pressure can't handle this drivel. The moment I realized we were all berkeleyed was when I looked at all the "repairs" being done in my area. 10 million dollars...probably more than I'll ever make...most certainly more than my whole family will ever pay in taxes, to put turn lanes on a stretch of road that no one uses, where there are no businesses to turn into. Great if you work for C.W. Matthews. Bad if you pay taxes to fund this horse E36 M3.

FWIW, I do handmade in the good ol' USA custom work, and I promise you I'll never lobby congress to force you to pay for it. I'd rather EARN my berkeleying money. Granted, a lot of my materials come from europe; a lot comes from Italy. I stay away from recycled Chinese political prisoner garbage. I am rambling.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/25/12 8:23 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: can we not jump on the no union bandwagon... yes, there are some bad ones.. but most fly under the radar because they do not do anything that makes them look bad. IATSE, the one I belong to, is one of them

Its the cost of unions. They cost more, a lot more because of overinflated wages. More so when its "scale" wages for government work. And there is absolutely nothing that justifies those higher costs.

carguy123
carguy123 PowerDork
4/25/12 8:48 p.m.

Well if it is Unions then it must be the Welders Union cause the guy from Cali clearly said they couldn't use American companies cause they couldn't get the welders.

Joshua
Joshua HalfDork
4/25/12 8:51 p.m.

In reply to ThePhranc:

Absolutely nothing? Really?

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/25/12 9:19 p.m.
Joshua wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Absolutely nothing? Really?

Yes there is absolutely nothing you can't get from a non-union shop that you can get from a union shop. Unions do not make things better. Period. They only make things more expensive.

z31maniac
z31maniac UberDork
4/25/12 9:30 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote:
mad_machine wrote: can we not jump on the no union bandwagon... yes, there are some bad ones.. but most fly under the radar because they do not do anything that makes them look bad. IATSE, the one I belong to, is one of them

This. I know there are some bad and unnecessary unions out there but I know that some are needed. United Mine Workers comes to mind.

What safety measures does the United Mine Workers call for that wouldn't be needed under any modern EPA/OSHA/etc body?

Joshua
Joshua HalfDork
4/25/12 10:29 p.m.

In reply to ThePhranc:

Wow, you really don't understand the point of unions, do you...

carguy123
carguy123 PowerDork
4/25/12 11:12 p.m.
Joshua wrote: In reply to ThePhranc: Wow, you really don't understand the point of unions, do you...

To feather the pockets of it's members, plain & simple.

And who cares where the money comes from as long as they get theirs.

Lockheed just went on strike. I've been hearing from members there would be a strike for years. Not that there would be a potential of a strike, that there would BE a strike. The day after the last strike I was told when the next strike would happen. That's bargaining in good faith how? It's a scheduled vacation.

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
4/25/12 11:37 p.m.

wow.. the hatred of unions runs deep here. You guys need to come to work with me to see how one really works

Joshua
Joshua HalfDork
4/25/12 11:53 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: You guys need to come to work with me to see how one really works

Hahahaha this made my night! I approve.

Max_Archer
Max_Archer New Reader
4/25/12 11:59 p.m.

Yeah, I don't understand how anybody could hate unions so much unless they've never known anybody who was in one. For every union that's "leathering the pockets" of its members, there are 10 that are making sure that its members get paid a decent living wage for what they do, get reasonable benefits and overtime, and generally don't get screwed by their employers.

My dad is union and in a business where everybody is freelance. Growing up, we wouldn't have had health insurance without the union, and there were several times where the union had to step in to get the employers to actually pay my dad his fair overtime when he was working 60+ hour weeks.

Josh
Josh Dork
4/26/12 6:31 a.m.

A union is just a tool that enables a group of employees to act unilaterally in the way that employers already can by their nature. Sometimes the unilateral actions of unions negatively affect businesses or consumers. Sometimes the unilateral actions of employers negatively affect employees or consumers. If you get pissed off about one, but not the other, you're a hypocrite. Anyone calling for unions to be broken up should logically be calling for corporations to be broken up as well.

pres589
pres589 Dork
4/26/12 6:39 a.m.

I for one can't wait for work conditions to return to how wonderful they were before unions ever existed in this country.

BAMF
BAMF Reader
4/26/12 6:56 a.m.
Max_Archer wrote: Yeah, I don't understand how anybody could hate unions so much unless they've never known anybody who was in one.

This is very true. These days so many people aren't in them, don't know people in them, and don't do the "blue collar" work that unions generally represent.

I wear a lot of hats at my job. I'm a designer, draftsman, CNC machinist, custom fabricator, and occasional installer. The other 3-4 people (the boss included) I work with all pretty much the same. We build one-off items, often for museums. Assuming we wanted to join a union, there really isn't any one that would fit, particularly considering the fact that we all have duties in the office realm of the company.

Without unions, most of the safety equipment we use would not exist. We wouldn't get paid overtime for work over 40 hours a week. Considering that I've been working 60-70 hours a week since December, that's pretty important.

I've got a boss who believes that if something isn't safe, it shouldn't be done. He thinks that his employees who have health insurance are more likely to be healthy, productive, and reliable. Not everyone works for people who actually care.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/26/12 7:10 a.m.

I'm just saying unions offer absolutely noting to the work. If a man goes from a union shop to a non-union shop his work doesn't magically turn to E36 M3, same as when a man goes from non-union to union his work doesn't magically get better.

I've worked for unions been a job site foreman I know exactly what a union is for. I also know union workers make more not because they are worth more but because dues are contingent on pay. The more a member makes the more the union pockets.

About 20% of my sign business is going and fixing the mess of union shops. 3 in particular. These are UL certified shops that don't follow code. You'd think a union and UL certified shop would be perfect but thats just the hype.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/26/12 7:13 a.m.
Max_Archer wrote: Yeah, I don't understand how anybody could hate unions so much unless they've never known anybody who was in one. For every union that's "leathering the pockets" of its members, there are 10 that are making sure that its members get paid a decent living wage for what they do, get reasonable benefits and overtime, and generally don't get screwed by their employers. My dad is union and in a business where everybody is freelance. Growing up, we wouldn't have had health insurance without the union, and there were several times where the union had to step in to get the employers to actually pay my dad his fair overtime when he was working 60+ hour weeks.

Your dad could have always bought his own insurance and managed his money better. So saying you wouldn't have had it with out the union is intellectually dishonest.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/26/12 7:14 a.m.
pres589 wrote: I for one can't wait for work conditions to return to how wonderful they were before unions ever existed in this country.

Well since we have laws at local,state and federal levels that address safety the unions aren't about safety anymore they have outlived that usefulness.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic UltimaDork
4/26/12 7:25 a.m.
ThePhranc wrote:
pres589 wrote: I for one can't wait for work conditions to return to how wonderful they were before unions ever existed in this country.

Well since we have laws at local,state and federal levels that address safety the unions aren't about safety anymore they have outlived that usefulness.

Mining is still dangerous. And the United Mine Workers union is doing a very good job of pushing for new laws to improve the safety including things like proximity systems to protect the miners from getting hit by machines. There have been around 35 deaths in the last two years that could have been prevented by that technology. And that doesn't count the number of people who have had the hips crushed between a CM and the wall or had their legs removed by a scoop. But no one wants to hear about a union doing something good.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc HalfDork
4/26/12 7:40 a.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

That can get done without a union too. A union isn't needed.

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