Talk me out of this...

In reply to aircooled:

Very, very true. I've lived both middle of nowhere and urban areas with concentrations of the most incompetent drivers I have ever seen. Many many more accidents happened when I was in the urban area, but the few I knew of that happened in less urban areas were more often fatal. I noticed when I lived in boston that rarely, if ever, I got up to fatal speeds. If you managed to find a straight road without lights, there would be crazy slow traffic. It just wasn't possible without trying hard. In the areas in my hometown in Wisconsin, there are miles of stick straight, flat roads with no traffic or lights. Those also have trees now and then only feet from the road. The majority of fatalities of my fellow high schoolers happened because they would get drunk and try to fly their car on the hilly roads and end up in a tree. Nothing will help you at 100 mph when hitting an oak. The one time someone 'crossed the line' and hit head on, it was clearly a stupid teenager who didn't check before pulling out to pass. At 90mph. I say he didn't check because if he did, he would've seen the Semi.

If you lived in an area with those kinds of roads, you'd feel very safe driving on them, as those kinds of accidents are extremely rare. When they do happen, however, people die.

Don't they do those offset crashes at 40mph? like, the car going 40 into a deformable object, replicating a car? Who drives 40mph? I wonder how fast the cars in the video were going...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO5BAckbguU

Now I don't feel so bad. Modern test is 40mph into deformable object. That was 35mph into a solid wall. It's not exactly like my van, but close enough. I don't think my face would survive contact with the steering wheel, though...

Car sold on eBay, I decided not to bid. It had nothing to do with crashworthiness. The wife just didn't like the styling all that much.

The fact that this discussion almost immediately devolved into a bunch of worrying about safety, without a single comment about finding parts, fuel economy, reliability, or any of the possibly 100 other reasons not to daily drive an older car solidifies my belief that this country has become a bunch of wine-cooler drinkers.

Apparently manliness is the new selfishness?

Don't try to accuse those of us who choose to mitigate the scientifically and statistically proven higher fatality/injury rates of older cars by driving cars that offer modern safety features of being wussy.

nocones wrote: Apparently manliness is the new selfishness? Don't try to accuse those of us who choose to mitigate the scientifically and statistically proven higher fatality/injury rates of older cars by driving cars that offer modern safety features of being wussy.

Plus 1. I heard the same argument from (other players) all the time about wearing a hockey mask while playing. You're a sissy if you do. Be that as it may, I've saved thousands of dollars in dental work compared to you.

nocones wrote: Apparently manliness is the new selfishness? Don't try to accuse those of us who choose to mitigate the scientifically and statistically proven higher fatality/injury rates of older cars by driving cars that offer modern safety features of being wussy.

You're being a wussy. Don't forget to put your kids in a bubble before they leave the house.

I'm guessing the kids don't ride in your VW bus?

Considering my wife has a 1959 Buick Invicta 4 door. I say go for it.

Where can I get me one of those kid bubbles?

You pegged it I'm a wuss. Perspective on these things change when you no longer have a parent due to an offset head on collision where the other drivers walked away due to the superior safety of their vehicle. You called it though. I'm just a bubble wrapping pansy with my children.

They might not. We haven't decided yet. That's part of the reason its sitting. It was very undervalued when we bought it so we may just sell it to fund a popup to tow behind the outback. We are weighing out the fact that the use age is going to be very low (non DD nice weekend only, primarily daylight hours non interstate) so risk of accident would be low however safety in accident is poor.

nocones wrote: You pegged it I'm a wuss. Perspective on these things change when you no longer have a parent due to an offset head on collision where the other drivers walked away due to the superior safety of their vehicle. You called it though. I'm just a bubble wrapping pansy with my children. They might not. We haven't decided yet. That's part of the reason its sitting. It was very undervalued when we bought it so we may just sell it to fund a popup to tow behind the outback. We are weighing out the fact that the use age is going to be very low (non DD nice weekend only, primarily daylight hours non interstate) so risk of accident would be low however safety in accident is poor.

Man if you end up putting those kids in that bus after all this holier than thou internet chest thumping....well....

As far as superior safety of the vehicle. I'm sure the outback isn't the safest vehicle on the road, so when are you going to step it up? There is always something rated safer right? You should constantly be trading to make sure the kiddies have the latest and greatest. Also they should wear helmets....all...the....time.

edit....the perspective part of your post just registered for some reason. A family member of mine tangled with a car while riding a bike and he died. The driver of the car walked away. I've been riding on the street for over 20 years and my perspective did not change. Unfortunately that's life and sometimes bad things happen, but I'm not going to stop living because of it.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Car sold on eBay, I decided not to bid. It had nothing to do with crashworthiness. The wife just didn't like the styling all that much. The fact that this discussion almost immediately devolved into a bunch of worrying about safety, without a single comment about finding parts, fuel economy, reliability, or any of the possibly 100 other reasons not to daily drive an older car solidifies my belief that this country has become a bunch of wine-cooler drinkers.

Yep, I'm a big Bob Costas.

Safety is something I always think about everytime I drive my Mini. It is a risk just being out on the roads in a car that weighs about 1400# and has me sitting at bumper level of SUVs with essentially no protection.

Taking the relative safety of a vehicle into account before loading ones lovewd ones into it is not in any way equivalent to being a Bob Costas.

T.J. wrote: Safety is something I always think about everytime I drive my Mini. It is a risk just being out on the roads in a car that weighs about 1400# and has me sitting at bumper level of SUVs with essentially no protection. Taking the relative safety of a vehicle into account before loading ones lovewd ones into it is not in any way equivalent to being a Bob Costas.

I bet you like Jolly Ranchers in your ZIMA.

Zima is malt liquor....that E36 M3s hardcore. Gotta be tough deciding between Zima and King Cobra.

I apologize if you feel judged by my words. I was only saying that people on the side of being OK with DD kids in classic cars should not judge/label those of us who chose not to. I stated my personal reasons and logic for that choice. At no point did I condem or talk poorly about people who make different choices than my own. I do not feel my position is the only correct one in this matter however it is the one I have used my logic and reason to arrive at.

Please explain how I was hollier than thou. I do not see nor did I intend internet chest thumping in the two posts I made. Perhaps the selfishness bit? If so that was a response to the idea that by not taking risks we are somehow less manly than those that choose their own enjoyment in the face of the increased risk to them/their family. They say its more manly/ less wussy I called it a selfish choice.

As to the bus if we did decide to accept the risks and put the kids in the bus I don't really care what you think. The outback is a 2012. It is a very safe vehicle but you are correct there are safer vehicles out there. We are comfortable with the relative safety provided by the outback and see diminishing returns at this time. When it is time to replace it we will consider the safety when selecting its replacement. Just like I do the kids will wear helmets when riding their bike or engaging in any activity with wheels strapped to feet.

I don't get it are you honestly attacking me for being safe with my chilren? I thin you've incorrectly pegged me as a "safety Nazi" with kids. My kids get to do unsafe things all the time. We just take the steps to minimize the risks as much as reasonable. I really can't believe you would imply imply that's somehow bad.

In reply to nocones:

Honestly I scoped in on your post because it rubbed me the wrong way and struck me as hypocritical once I saw the bus in your garage. At the time I didn't know your plan for the bus and made an assumption based on you having a family and it being a camper bus.

"Don't try to accuse those of us who choose to mitigate the scientifically and statistically proven higher fatality/injury rates of older cars by driving cars that offer modern safety features of being wussy.?"

Honestly I HOPE you take your kids camping in that bus. Had my parents done that when I was a kid I would have thought they were the coolest parents on earth. Instead we camped in a popup, which was still fun, but not so unique like the bus.

As for the helmet thing...that was unnecessary and was really tonque in cheek. A full-face saved my face when I hit a car on my bike one time and landed face first.

Cotton wrote: Zima is malt liquor....that E36 M3s hardcore. Gotta be tough deciding between Zima and King Cobra.

Never had a Zima, but Jolly Ranchers are pretty tasty.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: In reply to Cotton: I'd be looking around 5K for the car, and then getting it home 2000 +/- miles...

$5k for a cool old RUST-FREE wagon?

Oh berk yeah.

GRM = "enablers-r-us"

z31maniac wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: Car sold on eBay, I decided not to bid. It had nothing to do with crashworthiness. The wife just didn't like the styling all that much. The fact that this discussion almost immediately devolved into a bunch of worrying about safety, without a single comment about finding parts, fuel economy, reliability, or any of the possibly 100 other reasons not to daily drive an older car solidifies my belief that this country has become a bunch of wine-cooler drinkers.

Yep, I'm a big Bob Costas.

Well you are in a miata.

T.J. wrote:

Cotton wrote: Zima is malt liquor....that E36 M3s hardcore. Gotta be tough deciding between Zima and King Cobra.

Never had a Zima, but Jolly Ranchers are pretty tasty.

I drink mt. dew. It's liquid sugar and caffeine. My dentist probably doesn't want me to drink it, but i'm a rebel.