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Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa MegaDork
6/12/24 8:34 a.m.

Couldn't find the thread on this, there may not have been one, but...  this is bad.  Knew the guy cut corners, but holy E36 M3.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/inside-the-titan-submersible-disaster/

Edit: as of roughly 12:30-1:00 it appears this article has been taken down.  Ill see if i can find a mirror

New link thanks to Shadeux and Slippery

https://www.wired.com/story/titan-submersible-disaster-inside-story-oceangate-files/

Slippery
Slippery UltimaDork
6/12/24 9:20 a.m.

Very interesting read, thanks for posting.

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/12/24 9:48 a.m.

This is pretty typical startup culture garbage.  Expect most startups don't kill a bunch of people at one go. 

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
6/12/24 9:59 a.m.
Fueled by Caffeine said:

This is pretty typical startup culture garbage.  Expect most startups don't kill a bunch of people at one go. 

I'll have to read the rest of the article later, but yeah, it sounds like a case of a founder wanting X, Y and Z, and then surround themselves with yes men until X, Y and Z is achieved.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Publisher
6/12/24 10:43 a.m.

Woah. I thought I already knew how bad it was. I had no idea.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/12/24 10:44 a.m.

Nobody could have forseen this tragedy!

Oh, wait. Everyone did. Everyone except for one guy who believed his own beliefs over actual engineering.

 

camopaint0707
camopaint0707 HalfDork
6/12/24 10:47 a.m.

that was quite the read

johndej
johndej UltraDork
6/12/24 11:19 a.m.

“Since [starting] OceanGate we have heard the baseless cries of ‘you are going to kill someone’ way too often.” - dumb berk.

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
6/12/24 11:20 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Nobody could have forseen this tragedy!

Oh, wait. Everyone did. Everyone except for one guy who believed his own beliefs over actual engineering.

 

Sadly that's becoming the default position now.  People start at  "I reject any facts and substitute my own beliefs" and go downhill from there.  I'll stop before this post gets ugly..

golfduke
golfduke Dork
6/12/24 11:35 a.m.
johndej said:

“Since [starting] OceanGate we have heard the baseless cries of ‘you are going to kill someone’ way too often.” - dumb berk.

I actually laughed out loud at this one.  There's a fine linne between bravado and recklessness, but this wasn't even close to the line.  This was just a pure money-grabbing death wish. 

 

Driven5
Driven5 PowerDork
6/12/24 11:50 a.m.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but that's worse than you guys thought?

Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
6/12/24 12:17 p.m.

 

actual picture of founder of ocean gate 

Apexcarver
Apexcarver MegaDork
6/12/24 12:19 p.m.

It's just another example of a mentality that has become pervasive in the last decade or two. 

I kind of attribute it to silicone valley, but the "you have to break some eggs" mentality of over-promise, drive drive drive, anything holding back is the enemy.

There are a bunch of examples of fast-leveraged innovation, where they call out the old guard as being too cautious. Thing is, the old guard companies got that way because someone learned in blood. And because they insist on learning in blood themselves, it will likely result in the need for more regulation to save people from themselves and their ignorance. 

Mndsm
Mndsm MegaDork
6/12/24 12:20 p.m.

I cannot possibly imagine the the mania this guy had to be experiencing to get in this damn thing and go down that far after all that. No. Way. 

Duke
Duke MegaDork
6/12/24 12:40 p.m.
Apexcarver said:

Thing is, the old guard companies got that way because someone learned in blood. And because they insist on learning in blood themselves, it will likely result in the need for more regulation to save people from themselves and their ignorance

Or, we could just, you know... not do that.

 

Driven5
Driven5 PowerDork
6/12/24 12:56 p.m.
Apexcarver said:

There are a bunch of examples of fast-leveraged innovation, where they call out the old guard as being too cautious. Thing is, the old guard companies got that way because someone learned in blood. And because they insist on learning in blood themselves, it will likely result in the need for more regulation to save people from the negligence of narcissists in positions of power and control. 

Fixed.

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa MegaDork
6/12/24 1:00 p.m.
Driven5 said:

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but that's worse than you guys thought?

It was bad enough that Ars has pulled the article.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
6/12/24 1:00 p.m.

Is this article behind a paywall or something?  Because both clicking on the link and c/p the URL directly just lands me at a generic Ars Technica page with dozens of stories on it.  Even searching for the title string only yields stories from 2023.

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UltimaDork
6/12/24 1:04 p.m.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

I guess I missed it. Probably didn't need to see the details anyway. We know the story. 

Jay_W
Jay_W SuperDork
6/12/24 1:06 p.m.

Darn, can't find it. It's like it sank, then imploded.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso UltraDork
6/12/24 1:08 p.m.

1.18 Factor of Safety.  Yikes. 

Shadeux
Shadeux SuperDork
6/12/24 1:12 p.m.

I found it at WIRED: Link

I don't know if it's the same article; I didn't see the first one.

Slippery
Slippery UltimaDork
6/12/24 1:12 p.m.
Shadeux
Shadeux SuperDork
6/12/24 1:13 p.m.

In reply to Slippery :

first laugh

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
6/12/24 1:21 p.m.
Duke said:
Apexcarver said:

Thing is, the old guard companies got that way because someone learned in blood. And because they insist on learning in blood themselves, it will likely result in the need for more regulation to save people from themselves and their ignorance

Or, we could just, you know... not do that.

Unfortunately most industries don't pose risks to such a tiny handful of people who may have had some inkling of how much danger they were putting themselves in as trips in a tiny submarine. Up next, we have a bunch of companies rushing to develop AGI with very OceanGate-like mentalities. If (or when) they cause the E36 M3 to hit the fan, it won't be just a handful of uber-rich adventure tourists in danger...

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