Veterans - thank you

For any who participated directly or indirectly in Afghanistan or against the Taliban, I'm betting this has been an emotional week. 

I was thinking recently about what a special thing it is to 'serve your country'. What it really means in a lot of ways is you are putting your life on the line for other people. To be one of those people is a great honor. 

In light of that, I think all Americans should frequently ask themselves "am I living my life in such a way that those who put their life on the line for me would be proud?" The question is meant to drive improvement. If the answer is no, then you can change something to make it yes. If the answer is yes you can think of something that can be improved. I can't control all Americans, but I can control me. And yes, I have considered the question thoughtfully and will continue regularly.

I'll ask any who reads this post to thoughtfully consider the question as well. 

Veterans - thank you. 

Been reflecting on my service a decent amount this past week.  I should have buckled down and stuck it out for the full term, I'd be eligible for retirement in less than a year.

But more I think about my deployments.  I was lucky enough to get cake assignments and that's bothered me in the past.  I always felt I should volunteer for another deployment.

I felt the need to check in on several friends that were deployed to Afghanistan this week.  They're doing well, thankfully.

Just to reinforce the point:  I am sure there are many thoughts of "all for nothing" by those who where and weren't involved.  I think this is not entirely justified.  I think it is safe to say, but impossible to quantify or prove, that a number of things did not happen that might have otherwise.

That is just to say, there is at least some accomplishments to be proud of, even if you can't point directly to it.

Also to point out that the soldier does the job they are told to do, they have little to do with the reasons behind why they are doing those things.  They should be proud at least in the fact that they were doing what they were doing for the country, even if it wasn't their specific decision as the exactly what they were doing.

Stand proud, we do appreciate you.

Anybody who ever read a history book knew they were wasting their time.  As such, I presume most of the military that came home was not even slightly surprised by this situation, and is not particularly concerned.

From Wikipedia:

"Some of the invaders in the history of Afghanistan include the Maurya Empire, the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great of Macedon, Rashidun Caliphate, the Mongol Empire led by Genghis Khan, the Timurid Empire of Timur, the Mughal Empire, various Persian Empires, the Sikh Empire, the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and most recently a coalition force of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) troops."

You may notice none of them are still there...

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I was going to say I'm old enough to remember Russia.

Streetwiseguy nailed it.

There is no way we were going to change a culture of hundreds of years in a couple decades.

Total respect for those who did the dirty work over there. They just follow the orders they are given and do the best job they can under the circumstances. I feel sad for all of them as the predictable E36 M3 show is now taking place.

No one talks about how the British made Afghanistan as a buffer zone to the north of India.  That's exactly what it's been.  The British berked up pretty much every colony they were involved in.

I've accumulated a few years of time in Afghanistan. One thing for sure is, no matter how we pulled out of there, the country would've crumbled. It's either spend billions $ more + more American lives vs pull out (no matter the plan) and watch Afghanistan do what its been doing. I'm just glad I made it out of my deployments mostly physically unscathed. I know people who have died there and who have lifetime mental and physical damage from their time. I for one do not want to see another American die there for something that we made no progress with for years and years. I do feel for the countrymen, they're nice people but no outside source can save that place. They have to do it from within. 

I do find it ironic that the general population is JUST now noticing how E36 M3ty it is over there. It wasn't too long ago where I'd hear people say "get out soldiers out of there!" Or "just nuke the place/ turn it into a parking lot" but now y'all care?  

Streetwiseguy said:

Anybody who ever read a history book knew they were wasting their time.  As such, I presume most of the military that came home was not even slightly surprised by this situation, and is not particularly concerned.

From Wikipedia:

"Some of the invaders in the history of Afghanistan include the Maurya Empire, the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great of Macedon, Rashidun Caliphate, the Mongol Empire led by Genghis Khan, the Timurid Empire of Timur, the Mughal Empire, various Persian Empires, the Sikh Empire, the British Empire, the Soviet Union, and most recently a coalition force of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) troops."

You may notice none of them are still there...

I found a really interesting read on the country, and why it was impossible for the US to change anything, written by an OEF vet. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/p5txjf/chinese_state_media_says_afghanistan_a_lesson_for/h992yzt

Its one viewpoint and I'm not sure it is 100% correct, but even if its only 50% it opens up a lot of issues that I'm betting most Americans never knew about. 

I never ended up in Afghanistan, but know people that were there.  I didn't know it was as bad as the guy on reddit is saying it was.  I thought it was roughly about as bad as Iraq, but from the post above it is so much worse.

I know plenty of people that never served that have no clue how bad either country really was, they seem to unconsciously take the worst country they've ever been to or seen (usually Mexico for some reason) and just dial that down some.  

I'd bet that, at most, 5% of our politicians actually know how bad it is over there and most of that 5% is because they were military with the rest just actually being passionate about their job.

For those who want a bit more perspective, the Reddit post above references the doc What Winning Looks Like, which was filmed 8 years ago.  I highly recommend it.  It is quite revealing and is at the point of our involvement there were they were switching to getting the Afghans to do it on their own:

https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI

In reference to the politicians not knowing, there is a bit of a reference in the doc were a higher up visits and they never mention some of the absurdities going on, and there are some very very bad ones.  Not a defense of politicians but to note that lack of a realistic view of the situation was at a lot of levels.
 

In reply to yupididit :

Thanks, man.  Tough to see what's happening, I bet, but it's clearly expected.

My most fervent hopes with this whole situation are that we can get our allies out safely, and that we will finally learn our lesson about nation-building.

The US seemed to do OK Nation building right after WW 2 but not so much since then, though I did not think Afghanistan was ever going to work out the way we wanted.  

Also known as the Graveyard of Empires. IT was unwinnable but that doesnt' take away my respect for those that tried. 

Aaron_King said:

The US seemed to do OK Nation building right after WW 2 but not so much since then, though I did not think Afghanistan was ever going to work out the way we wanted.  

There is a really good NPR interview (book author) about how horrible we (CIA) were at that as well. Toppling democratic governments and putting in figureheads that ended up being worse. 

(edit) https://www.npr.org/2021/06/25/1010147756/the-quiet-americans-examines-tragic-miscalculations-in-the-cias-formative-years

One of the interesting aspects I found (I think it's in the doc?) is that the Taliban are primarily Pashdun (generally the southern area with the larger head wraps) while the ANA where mostly Northern Alliance.  As you may remember, the US allied with the Northern Alliance to help push the Taliban out so that does make some sense.  This obviously created concerns with stability / trust in the ANA throughout the country though.

On a truly sad note: Although the country is returning to what it was before, that was 20 years ago.  The median age in Afghanistan is 19 years old!  For comparison the US is 38.  So... there are a very large percentage of people in the country who have no idea what it is like to live under Taliban rule.  Which of course also means, there might be some push back (a bit late of course), especially in the northern areas.

(It is a truly sad situation, but fascinating from a history in action perspective)

In reply to aircooled :

To say that there might be a fair amount of pushback in the north is a bit of an understatement.

Northern resistance fighters took back three districts from the Taliban
Also, Ahmad Massoud the son of an Afghan national hero (and well on the way to becoming one himself) who fought against the Russians is gathering thousands to fight the Taliban

There are videos of Afghan commandos (not ANA, big difference apparently) weeping in front of their commanders as they're being told to surrender their weapons.  There are many that absolutely did not want to stop fighting.

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Looks like we may be looking at the beginnings of another Afghani civil war.  Definitely no love lost between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban.  

Yup, just a giant circle back to the early 90's.  A twist may be that China has taken interest in their rare earth minerals and what happens when they get between the two groups....

....China... your turn.

I wonder what China's attitude will be to their opium production.  China has a very negative view on such things, for very valid historical reasons. Of course China has never had an issue selling and shipping misery to other countries (see Fentanyl production).

The amount of money the USA has spent on intelligence, diplomacy, and military over the last twenty years is a truly inconceivable number. The result that we have obtained is either the desired outcome of the responsible parties and 'think tanks' advising the government or the people spending the money are completely corrupt and incompetent. Whatever the truth, they should not be allowed to continue. Will anyone responsible truly be held accountable? Doubtful.

-Retired USCG and Army with 21 years of service on the front lines of - Rescue, Law Enforcement, Peace Keeping, Nation Building, and Rapid Deployment for National Security.

Thank you Veterans from a 15 year Civ DoD employee.

I recently went to the Coolidge Medal of Honor Museum in Chattanooga. It was emotional.

I work with a bunch of Afgan Vets and non are happy. Many are hoping their friends made it out. I hope they do too.

I always wondered if there was some massive stash of rare earth minerals that somehow justified our actions.. under the pretense of "freedom". Like the old t-shirts that said "kick their ass take their gas"..
 

I absolutely appreciate the agony, the sacrifice of American military men and women, but hate that politicians and lies always put them in harms way. 
 

edit: read the Reddit link. We just have no frame of reference. 

In reply to OHSCrifle :

Lots of mineral wealth, supposedly the largest amount of lithium and other rare earths in the world.  I don't think there was a bit drive to dig it up though 

It seems we all have friends, family, or colleagues that spent their time in the sandbox giving their all.  Some came home and some didn't.  It's such a tough situation to watch unfold.  I share the feeling of helplessness and frustration that it all crumbled so rapidly.

For those of us that think the region was always a mess I would offer up the below light reading.

1918 allied powers agreement

Aaron_King said:

The US seemed to do OK Nation building right after WW 2 but not so much since then, though I did not think Afghanistan was ever going to work out the way we wanted.  

I think the big difference is that the US was more engaged in nation RE-building after WW2. We were mostly dealing with nations that had already been established and industrialized with functioning modern governments and infrastructure.

It's like you started with a car, and blew major components so it didn't run. Then you did a restomod with some upgraded components, and now it works fine.

Afghanistan is more like taking an early 19th century wagon, blowing major holes in it, and then trying to retrofit it with a new Ford drivetrain and not figuring out how to get the modern ECU to play with voltaic piles.