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Fueled by Caffeine
Fueled by Caffeine MegaDork
2/9/22 3:12 p.m.

So an old coworker of mine is ceo of this aerospace machine shop( her dad founded the business). 
 

she's done some neat stuff with the place but my favorite is the "teach you to be a machinist" job.  Paid from day one and taught how to be a machinist while working and earning cash.  Sounds a lot like the apprenticeships that common in Europe and used to be common here. 
 

anyways. Wish more companies did this. 
 

https://acutecprecision.com/careers-original/new-machinist-program/

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
2/9/22 3:18 p.m.

That is great. It is getting rare to train on the job.  I like the last line about night shift.  

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
2/9/22 3:31 p.m.

I use to live 20-30 minutes or so away from them.  There are actually many similar opportunities, I think a program that utilized high school students part-time would be helpful. Instead of being $50k in debt from college only to come and do this. I just did research and wrote a paper on this subject pretty much all union trades offer a similar program.

Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos)
Brett_Murphy (Agent of Chaos) MegaDork
2/9/22 3:55 p.m.

That's pretty great. I'd point my kid at it if it were closer.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
2/9/22 4:02 p.m.

I really don't understand why that isn't standard operating procedure for lots and lots of trades.  You get to build people who understand your needs, and if they turn out to be idiots, you are not out a whole bunch.  Yes, it costs some money in training time, but you are not paying them the big dough for a year or two...

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
2/9/22 4:13 p.m.

Germany  has been doing this for decades , and it works for them.....

But  are the youth of today going to want to learn stuff like this and not  be a TikTok star ?

Do the USA  Unions have this training for electricians and other building trades ?

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter)
Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) UberDork
2/9/22 5:02 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

Do the USA  Unions have this training for electricians and other building trades ?

Yes, but as a young adult myself the schools here push for College so hard. But yes, most Union construction and trades jobs do on the job training and evening classes. 

mslevin
mslevin New Reader
2/9/22 5:13 p.m.

Almost everyday I think about switching careers from software to something more hands-on, I'd love to work as a machinist. Wish it was easier to "try out" new careers.

11GTCS
11GTCS Dork
2/9/22 5:30 p.m.

Do the USA  Unions have this training for electricians and other building trades ?

Pipefitters, plumbers, electricians, carpenters and sheet metal workers here in greater Boston all have apprenticeship training programs and I'm likely leaving some other trades out.  We're affiliated with the pipefitters (I'm a member and 2nd generation) It's a 5 year program, typically 3 hours evenings during the week from September to April 2-3 nights a week depending on the year.  It's a combination of theory as well as practical application labs to practice skills.

Our local also has an agreement with Wentworth Institute (I believe the electricians and the plumbers do as well) that will result in an associates degree with a few additional courses.  No charge to the apprentices and they work during the day as they learn.    All this with solid hourly pay, full health care, pension and other retirement benefits.    

I graduated from college and worked for a few years before I entered the program.   It was a bit of a step back for the first year or so but by the time I was a journeyman I was far ahead of where I would have been in the previous career income wise. The combination of my engineering experience plus the practical experience in the field has been very helpful to the sales and project management work that I've been doing now for over 25 years.   So yeah, if you have or know someone that's inclined to work in the trades please encourage them to look into it.  

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody MegaDork
2/9/22 5:50 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

I really don't understand why that isn't standard operating procedure for lots and lots of trades.  You get to build people who understand your needs, and if they turn out to be idiots, you are not out a whole bunch.  Yes, it costs some money in training time, but you are not paying them the big dough for a year or two...

Because managers are idiots.

When I worked for the large automotive parts manufacturer, we were short tradesmen the last ten years I was there. I suggested to my manager that they instead hire a few apprentices, maybe one per shift, then all the openings will be filled.

He said it was because apprenticeships never work out. I then asked him where all the licensed tradesmen we have now came from... He insisted that if he trained them they would just leave, but I asked him how he would know that if he'd never had one. I didn't get an answer but I continued to explain to him that if they did leave it would be his fault, though even if they did, you still got 4 years out of them at discounted rates, which is far better than what he was getting now.  That guy hated me.

Where I am now we have two apprentice millwrights and one is with me full time. I'll probably wait til he gets his license before I retire.

 

 

 

 

 

travellering
travellering HalfDork
2/9/22 6:31 p.m.

They aren't idiots, they just are more incentivized by short term P and L.  An apprentice is time lost from the experienced guys training him, and all the costs of tooling broken, parts scrapped, etc. ...  A business owner can more easily see the long term benefits of skilled trades apprentices than a manager.  It's just rare for owners to still be involved at the level where apprentices are hired by the time the business is large enough to take them on...

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
2/9/22 7:07 p.m.

I  went to SCROC . The Southern California Regional Occupational Center for adult night school , 

I took welding and machine shop  , it was fun and I learned a lot , 

But SCROC is one of the few Trade schools left  in the Los Angeles area , 

We need more Trade schools , there are a lot of smart students that are not cut out for University , 

11GTCS
11GTCS Dork
2/9/22 7:44 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

I  went to SCROC . The Southern California Regional Occupational Center for adult night school , 

I took welding and machine shop  , it was fun and I learned a lot , 

But SCROC is one of the few Trade schools left  in the Los Angeles area , 

We need more Trade schools , there are a lot of smart students that are not cut out for University , 

This, absolutely this.   I basically grew up in the trade, I’d ride along with my Dad any chance I got.  I knew many of the guys he worked with and years later worked with a few of them when I first started.  None of them had more than a high school education and apprenticeship but they were among the smartest people I’ve ever worked with.  

Another thing, bring back shop / automotive repair / food service and similar classes back into the education system.  I went to a “regular” high school that was very focused on academics but we had wood and metal shop, art classes, heck I even took a typing class.   I loved wood shop and it’s ended up being a lifelong hobby.  Expose the kids to as much as possible so they have a chance to discover where their talents and passions are.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill MegaDork
2/9/22 7:45 p.m.

Michelin did this for one of my old coworker's nephews.  He was paid to got to tech school for tool and die and worked part time.   He had a good paying job when he finished the program.  

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
2/9/22 8:03 p.m.

My understanding of Unions and Apprenticeships is that they were designed and managed so as to have an artificial scarcity of qualified tradespeople. 

 

As to "becoming" a machinist later in life, that would be a hard hoe. Maybe a CNC operator, but its not the same.

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Dork
2/9/22 8:55 p.m.

Being a machinist is a fun, rewarding and occasionally erotic occupation.

That said, becoming a conventional machinist in this day and age is kind of a waste of time. That's Garage hobby stuff. If you want to make a career out of it CNC is the only direction to go.

Manual machinists seem to have this bizzare distain for CNC machinists. Like we're just button pushers. Fact is, I do everything they do, and I write code.

As for starting to learn machining later in life... If you want to. Do it. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is now.

 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
2/9/22 8:58 p.m.

there was a free Bridgeport on Craigslist yesterday.........

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Dork
2/9/22 9:26 p.m.
californiamilleghia said:

there was a free Bridgeport on Craigslist yesterday.........

The most expensive kind of bridgeport.

preach (dudeist priest)
preach (dudeist priest) Dork
2/10/22 2:32 a.m.

I am a graduate apprentice, now a supervisor. I, in part, use portable machining equipment on various components to bring them back into spec even to a half thou. We can blow the Inside guys minds sometimes with the machines we use and in the spaces we use them in.

It's a very cool job and I am glad I decided to get into the apprenticeship at 38yo when I needed a career change. 

The shipyard I work at hires yearly for the trades apprenticeship:

https://www.usajobs.gov/job/631338700

It is open now starting at $20/hr and you qualify for your GI Bill if you were in the service and have not used it.

Additionally, at least in New Hampshire there is a non-profit organization that offers scholarships for trade training.

https://bringbackthetrades.org/ 

Starting next fall and for the next two semesters after the fall one I will be in welding class at a local community college to become a certified welder at 53yo (when i get the certificate). Welding and fabricating will be my retirement side gig since I have a shop already set up for fabrication anyway. A lathe and milling machine will be retirement additions.

Trades are dying but still so much in demand it is crazy.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
2/10/22 7:19 a.m.

Maybe I need to start looking into something like this around me.  Last few times I looked in my area, machinists were getting paid about the same as fast food workers, so I stuck with my well paying office job.

11GTCS
11GTCS Dork
2/10/22 8:03 a.m.

In reply to preach (dudeist priest) :

You and I really should try to have a beer or two some time.  Oh the tight spaces I have been in with your shipyard brothers...  LOL.  I have a couple of beauties, I'm sure yours are even better.

akylekoz
akylekoz SuperDork
2/10/22 8:06 a.m.

https://www.thetechcenter.org/programs/

This is the school in my back yard, literally.  I missed the open house last week, with HS aged boys I want them to see the other opportunities. 

https://www.micareerquest.org/

I was involved in this for a few years, 9000 students visited four career path options,  Advanced manufacturing, construction, health care, and IT.

We created some automation and explained the careers involved in its manufacture.  All great options, of the hundreds of kids I talked to maybe 5-10 were stoked for these careers.

One of my favorite parts was a giant board that showed how you apprentice while making $120k, end with zero dept and an in demand career making $60-$120k /year.  This is an opportunity for a lot of kids that are not traditional four year college bound students.  Many don't see the middle ground between a degree and entry level jobs for life.

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
2/10/22 8:37 a.m.

We have that where I worked.  Sign on at $27/hr, move to a different type of machine every month or so, go to Community College two nights a week and in 3 years you get ~$38/hr and papers accepted anywhere.  (also a job for life)

I give the paperwork to my friend that instructs aircraft mechanics trade school, the 4th summer I did this, he handed it back "These kids don't want that".  What do they want?  He said the results without all the work ....   =~ (

preach (dudeist priest)
preach (dudeist priest) Dork
2/10/22 8:38 a.m.

In reply to 11GTCS :

We should. I'll let you know when I am heading to CT again and maybe we can meet up along the way there or back.

EDIT: you might be old enough to remember my uncle. He went through the enlisted ranks and ended up Command Master Chief of Pearl Harbor. He's a berkeleying stud.

TurnerX19
TurnerX19 UltraDork
2/10/22 10:52 a.m.

The absence of trades workers to day is almost entirely on the shoulders of the public education system. Not a new problem either. When I was in high school from 1967 to 1970 all I heard from the "guidance councilors" was "you are too smart to get your hands dirty, go to college". This is also why there are so many inept people in the trades today. I am delighted that I largely ignored those "councilors".

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