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ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 7:52 a.m.

http://event.nationalgeographic.com/greendex/

Once again a nation that really is very very smart and has tons of great ideas/thinkers is last in enviormental awareness.

yay consumerism.

Chris_V
Chris_V SuperDork
5/30/08 8:11 a.m.

You know, reading that, it appears that the closer you are to being a cave dweller the "greener" you are. Well, you know what? They're right. As a US citizen, I don't aspire to be a cave dweller. Yes, I have appliances to make life easier and A/C. And I have a vehicle that lets me go more than 3 miles in any given direction per day.

What they DON'T say in that report is that while those in developing countries are more "green" they are also vastly more likely to die young of treatable or preventable disease. And our "smart" consumerist society ends up developing and paying for all the medicines that are being used to prevent and cure those diseases IN developing countries. If our use of food goods is so bad, then why is it that most health problems in developing countries have malnutrition as a primary underlying cause? Yeah, let's aspire to live like them.

Now, I'm not advocating rampant pollution, or excessive waste because you can. What I'm trying to point out is you have to take a report like that with a grain of salt.

therex
therex Dork
5/30/08 8:30 a.m.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 8:31 a.m.
Chris_V wrote: You know, reading that, it appears that the closer you are to being a cave dweller the "greener" you are. Well, you know what? They're right. As a US citizen, I don't aspire to be a cave dweller.

absurd..

attitudes that dismiss reports such as this are the reason why we are last and are a massive energy vacuum. Wait till carbon credits become mandatory. I'll do something american and capiltalistic by selling my excess to you.... have fun paying out your nose.

We do make waste to live, we need to minimize it, but americans aren't interested..

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
5/30/08 9:02 a.m.

That article doesn't mention that China has some of the most lax 'point source' regulations on the planet. If you run a plating shop, for instance, you can dump your heavy metal acid crap on the ground and no one will make a peep. China also still uses R12 refrigerant as an electronics degreaser and is exempt from the Kyoto Protocol as an 'emerging economy', yet they are ranked higher because of their bicycle use?

We have, for years, had the most stringent vehicle emissions laws on the planet which is why everyone on this board continually complains that we don't get the really cool cars from overseas.

This is merely another 'America sucks' article of the type which just get tiresome.

therex
therex Dork
5/30/08 9:05 a.m.

Let's not forget that "Land-of-the-two-stroke" India is tied for #1.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 9:07 a.m.

I took this as a survey of awarenss and actions of individuals rather than industry etc...

stop throwing flares. we're last cause we're morons.

therex
therex Dork
5/30/08 9:14 a.m.
ignorant wrote: I took this as a survey of awarenss and actions of individuals rather than industry etc... stop throwing flares. we're last cause we're morons.

That is even funnier!

People in third world countries ride bicycles or walk because they have to, not because they're trying to be "environmentally aware".

Wally
Wally SuperDork
5/30/08 9:16 a.m.

I really don't think the average Indian of Chinese citizen is more enviornmentally aware than I am, they just don't have the money I do yet. As soon as they get some they buy tvs, cars, and get fat. I'm just more evolved than they are, not less inteligent.

mistanfo
mistanfo Dork
5/30/08 9:18 a.m.

I have a feeling that when most Americans (and Canadians) drive 500 miles in a day, it pollutes less than 1 2 stroke scooter going 5 miles in the same day.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 9:49 a.m.
therex wrote:
ignorant wrote: I took this as a survey of awarenss and actions of individuals rather than industry etc... stop throwing flares. we're last cause we're morons.
That is even funnier! People in third world countries ride bicycles or walk because they have to, not because they're trying to be "environmentally aware".

the attitude you're playing into is one of acceptance of mediocrity that i see in this country with every little thing..

Let's rationalize a few more things away....

It's ok that our kids are not doing great in comparisons with other countries kids in all leading education indicators.. 1. the test was hard 2. its not fair 3. data can be made to say anything.

It's just fine that we have a crumbling infrastructure... 1. working on things is tough 2. Cheers reruns are on 3. you can make data say anything you want..

excuses

but it's ok.. If someone presents data we can't refute..we'll try to discredit it with ridiculous attacks.. it's ok.. the test was hard and my education wasnt very good.

gamby
gamby SuperDork
5/30/08 10:01 a.m.

She doesn't care about your stupid article.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
5/30/08 10:19 a.m.
ignorant wrote: it's ok.. the test was hard and my education wasnt very good.

Why wasn't your education very good?
1. You didn't really give a E36 M3 about learning because the new video games came out. 2. We only spent 6X the money to educate you that we spent to educate your parents. 3. The data can be made to say anything.

belteshazzar
belteshazzar Dork
5/30/08 10:33 a.m.

optimists and pessimists lol...

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 11:04 a.m.
Dr. Hess wrote:
ignorant wrote: it's ok.. the test was hard and my education wasnt very good.
Why wasn't your education very good? 1. You didn't really give a E36 M3 about learning because the new video games came out. 2. We only spent 6X the money to educate you that we spent to educate your parents. 3. The data can be made to say anything.

option #4. Still had geography books that referenced the USSR in 2005.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
5/30/08 11:10 a.m.
therex wrote: Let's not forget that "Land-of-the-two-stroke" India is tied for #1.

Isn't India also the country with the 700 mile open sewer called the Ganges River?

Yup, I think it is.

The worst air pollution in the world?

You don't really wanna breathe this.

But they are #1 for being green? Color me confused.

Face facts: we here in the US have come a long ways toward cleaning up our nests. Damn sight better than many other places on the planet. Yeah, we still got a ways to go, but we ain't as bad as some would have us believe.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
5/30/08 11:12 a.m.

Option #5: Still had NEA teacher that believed in the USSR and wouldn't teach the colapse of communism/socialism as a non-viable economic system.

Josh
Josh Reader
5/30/08 12:10 p.m.

This doesn't seem to be an examination of anything relating to reality, it's basically just a ranking of how guilty the citizens personally feel for existing. I'm not surprised with our rank in that context, and that doesn't bother me at all.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 12:15 p.m.
Josh wrote: This doesn't seem to be an examination of anything relating to reality, it's basically just a ranking of how guilty the citizens personally feel for existing. I'm not surprised with our rank in that context, and that doesn't bother me at all.

usage of public transport?

therex
therex Dork
5/30/08 12:26 p.m.
ignorant wrote:
Josh wrote: This doesn't seem to be an examination of anything relating to reality, it's basically just a ranking of how guilty the citizens personally feel for existing. I'm not surprised with our rank in that context, and that doesn't bother me at all.
usage of public transport?

Public transport isn't an option for everyone. Hell, it isn't an option for most people. I live close to my job. The road is too dangerous to take a bicycle, but I drive only perhaps 6 miles to work. My carbon "footprint" has got to be lower than the national average. Furthermore, the test's obvious bias towards hybrids and "special fuel vehicles" (does an E85 Silverado count?) completely ignores the fact that making a new vehicle wastes alot more resources than buying used. And yet...no focus on that at all!

Finally, having access to the internet AND reading national geographic introduces a bias to the survey, PLUS having polled THE ENTIRE WORLD of 14,000 people. Awesome.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
5/30/08 12:30 p.m.
therex wrote:
ignorant wrote:
Josh wrote: This doesn't seem to be an examination of anything relating to reality, it's basically just a ranking of how guilty the citizens personally feel for existing. I'm not surprised with our rank in that context, and that doesn't bother me at all.
usage of public transport?
Public transport isn't an option for everyone. Hell, it isn't an option for most people. I live close to my job. The road is too dangerous to take a bicycle, but I drive only perhaps 6 miles to work. My carbon "footprint" has got to be lower than the national average. Furthermore, the test's obvious bias towards hybrids and "special fuel vehicles" (does an E85 Silverado count?) completely ignores the fact that making a new vehicle wastes alot more resources than buying used. And yet...no focus on that at all! Finally, having access to the internet AND reading national geographic introduces a bias to the survey, PLUS having polled THE ENTIRE WORLD of 14,000 people. Awesome.

another person who will need my carbon credits at a "reasonable" price

and why isn't public transport an option. It should be.

you're also giving more excuses..

you're also failing to realize my argument is merely for arguments sake...

GlennS
GlennS Reader
5/30/08 12:50 p.m.

lol, india and brazil are on top???? are you shitting me? Being too pore to buy a car or a house apparently is being green. I agree, housing a family of 12 inside a house built out of scavenged cardboard boxes and consuming 800 calories a day sure must reduce your environmental impact.

Brazil: Hurray slash and burn http://www.sprol.com/?p=188

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
5/30/08 12:51 p.m.
Josh wrote: This doesn't seem to be an examination of anything relating to reality, it's basically just a ranking of how guilty the citizens personally feel for existing. I'm not surprised with our rank in that context, and that doesn't bother me at all.

Yeah, I kinda got that too. It sucks when people put their minds to bettering their lives, accomplish that task and then are told they need to feel guilty for it.

Then when things go to hell in backwards places with low carbon footprints like Somalia and we stay the hell out of their business and the local warlords starve their people we are told how evil we are for not helping them and then we send humanitarian aid which then gets stolen by their local warlords etc and then we send troops to hold off the local warlords and troops and civilians die we are told what an evil warmongering people we are.

Yep, that's us: we create the best standard of living the planet has ever seen and try to help our fellow human and we are called a bunch of motherfuckers for it. Yeah, this is one of my hot buttons.

therex
therex Dork
5/30/08 1:02 p.m.
ignorant wrote: you're also failing to realize my argument is merely for arguments sake...

The Rex doesn't like trolls.

PeteWW
PeteWW None
5/30/08 1:19 p.m.

"The American Thinker” website ran the numbers. In the seven years between the signing of Kyoto in 1997 and 2004, here’s what happened:

  • Emissions worldwide increased 18.0%.
  • Emissions from countries that signed the treaty increased 21.1%.
  • Emissions from non-signers increased 10.0%.
  • Emissions from the U.S. increased 6.6%.

Please define "environmental awareness."

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