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dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
3/10/18 8:37 a.m.

I found Spools car:  Toyota GT-86 Rocket Bunny. 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 2:34 p.m.

I did some Vintage Touring A testing this afternoon while the little guy napped. My results were a bit different than Argos. I did mildly tune each car for: final drive ratio, fuel load and brake pressure. 

I found the Camaro and Mustang the fastest, followed by the RSR and Z, and then the Ferrari and Jag. 

The Jag is a weird car, it has the most power, but the worst braking/turning. The Z may not be as handicapped as initially thought. It’s the least powerful but has the best handling and has 5 gears vs everyone else’s 4. 

Track selection will need to be varied to not overly favor the powerful cars. I think a VTA series comes down to tuning and tracks. 

e30Matt
e30Matt Dork
3/10/18 3:05 p.m.

In reply to BradLTL :

I ran some laps as well and made similar changes with the exception of final drive.  I didn't hate the Z though it was slowest of the 4 I tested, the RSR was a bit faster and I really like the way it drives, and the Camaro took some getting used to because it's so heavy but it was the fastest of the 3 by about half a second.  The Jag on the other hand, my first flying lap was 1.5 seconds faster than the Camaro and changing the rear diff ratio picked up another second.  That car is already fast, if you sort out the handling it would be a monster.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 3:16 p.m.

In reply to e30Matt :

Yea, I don’t disagree. A tuned Jag will likely be the fastest car in the group by a margin. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/10/18 4:59 p.m.

Yeah, like I said:

(Sauce + Jag) * tuning = no

 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 5:20 p.m.

I just set the AI on a 30 lap race at Sakitto to see how the cars settle out without human influence. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/10/18 5:24 p.m.

You might want to experiment with higher aggression settings to see if that makes them drive more predictably.  Some of the issues we have with the AI seems to be the result of the being overly hesitant.

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
3/10/18 5:30 p.m.

Seems like this could be a good series excluding the Jag except for use by bots and maybe to performance advantage someone mid season.  As long as the track schedule is a balance of handling and speed tracks the differences between cars should balance out.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 5:30 p.m.

I have them set to 90/65 in a custom race that I retired at the start. 6 laps in and the Jags are in the first 5 positions with a 6 second gap while the Zs are in the last 4 spots. 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 6:21 p.m.

Sakitto test ended like this:

Jag

RSR

Camaro

Ferrari

Mustang

Z

With the Jags lapping the Zs on lap 17. 

Running another test on the combined ‘Ring to see if all the corners slow the Jags down at all. 

e30Matt
e30Matt Dork
3/10/18 7:01 p.m.

In reply to BradLTL :

The Ring has enough high speed sections that I'd be surprised if it does, but I look forward to the results.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 7:04 p.m.

They’re only 6-7 laps in, but the Ferrari is showing form. It’s passed up from 10 to 4, passing Jags and RSRs. I’ll check on them again in a few minutes. 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 8:10 p.m.

Ring race was a bit inconclusive. 2 Jags, a Ferrari, RSR, Camaro, and a Z running last.   I’m not sure that really helps considering only 10 of the 29 cars actually finished the race. 

Im running test 3 at Sugo. Halfway through this race, 2 Jags are in front BUT there is literally no gap to the Ferrari and Camaro in 3rd and 4th. 

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 8:16 p.m.

Sugo average finish:

Jag

Ferrari

Camaro

Mustang

RSR 

Z

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/10/18 8:24 p.m.

I would say the performance ranks like this:

  1. Jag
  2. RSR / Ferrari / Camaro
  3. Mustang
  4. Z

The difference between 2/3 is down to type of track. Also I learned that when the bots adjust their setups, they don’t change gears. They were all bouncing off the limiter at the ‘ring.

If we decide to run them I think we have a Jag banned driver list. We can reserve the car (if the driver chooses) for new comers or those that aren’t quite up to speed yet. 

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
3/11/18 12:16 a.m.

I went on the PC2 Leaderboards and looked up the times for the cars at various tracks.  I pulled three handling tracks and looked up the fastest times for each car on each track.  The three tracks were Sonoma, Laguna, and Brands.  Here are the average lap times for each car. (times for 3 tacks / 3):

Camaro 1:38.3

RSR  1:39.3

240Z  1:40.3

Mustang  1:40.6

Jaguar  1:41.0

Ferrari  1:41.3

Then I took three horsepower tracks and looked up the leaderboard on each car.  The tracks were Spa, Daytona, Nurburgring GP.  Here is the average lap time of each car:

Camaro 1:17.0

RSR  1:18.6

Jaguar 1:21.3

Ferrari  1:22.0

Mustang 1:23.6

240Z  1:24.6

A much larger spread in times on the faster tracks.  The RSR and Camaro clearly faster in fast and slow tracks.

This doesn't necessarily line up with my own driving experience but this what the times on the leaderboards say... 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/11/18 1:53 a.m.

Regarding Corvair tag:

Build week:  09B = 2nd week of September 

Interior (paint) color = D = Red

  • 65 = 1965
  • 1 = chevy
  • 07 = Corsa
  • 67 = Convertible
  • Build in Warren Michigan, 394th car built ( of 8353 Corsa convertibles)
  • Paint color = R: Regal Red, 1: White top
  • Trim: 785 = Red vinyl

Options (bottom row)

  • W = Tinted window, front only - $12.65
  • L = 4  speed manual trans - $91.50
  • C = padded dash - $16.15
  • P = Comfort and convenience group A (day/night mirror, right side mirror and 2 speed wipers) $28.00
  • U = Spare tire lock $5.40
  • O = 180 HP Turbo motor - $158
BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/11/18 7:46 a.m.

In reply to Argo1 :

I don’t know that we can really trust the leaderboards (pc). Looking around, some of these cars only have a handful of times set. They don’t appear very popular... which kinda makes me want to drive them more. 

And of the cars that have set times, it certainly seems most people drive the Chevy.  For example, no one has set a hot lap in the Jag at Road America. 

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
3/11/18 8:06 a.m.

Why not tune one car and have everybody run the same car with the same tune? Super Spec

Argo1
Argo1 SuperDork
3/11/18 9:23 a.m.
aircooled said:

Regarding Corvair tag:

Build week:  09B = 2nd week of September 

Interior (paint) color = D = Red

  • 65 = 1965
  • 1 = chevy
  • 07 = Corsa
  • 67 = Convertible
  • Build in Warren Michigan, 394th car built ( of 8353 Corsa convertibles)
  • Paint color = R: Regal Red, 1: White top
  • Trim: 785 = Red vinyl

Options (bottom row)

  • W = Tinted window, front only - $12.65
  • L = 4  speed manual trans - $91.50
  • C = padded dash - $16.15
  • P = Comfort and convenience group A (day/night mirror, right side mirror and 2 speed wipers) $28.00
  • U = Spare tire lock $5.40
  • O = 180 HP Turbo motor - $158

Some of that I had decoded and got the same answers.  You filled in the missing pieces.  However, almost none of that matches the car.  Yellow car - original or a really good repaint down to all the hidden detail places.  Black top.  Black interior.  140 motor.  No right side mirror.  This car confuses me.  VIN and body tags are original.

e30Matt
e30Matt Dork
3/11/18 9:54 a.m.

I ran a bit more with tuning, and for kicks ran an open room with a 30 minute practice/tuning session, 10 minute qualifying and 15 minute race.  Running the Z I was the fastest in practice of the 6 or so people who joined, qualifying only had 5 participants and I was on pole.  The race started and very quickly I learned of an oversight.  Unlike the Formula Rookies these cars have tire wear, and overheating took almost nothing once you're up to full temp.  A couple laps of pushing kinda hard and they're over temp, and getting them back down is a challenge.  They'll go back to green pretty quickly, but it takes a couple laps of taking it easy to be able to push the car again.  If you don't give them long enough 2 consecutive somewhat hard turns in the same direction is enough to go from green to orange on the outside tires and you're back to square one.  I haven't done any long runs on any of these cars, but the Z was, in relatively stock form, absolutely awful on tires.  

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
3/11/18 10:35 a.m.

What are optimal tire pressures for these cars?  

 

And I propose that we try Watkins glen short course as a race venue. I know this track from actually running it I was really impressed with the realism. I was having fun blasting around it. The esses are a big game of chicken. Very fast and hugely rewarding if you get it right. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/11/18 10:48 a.m.

Yes, I was going to ask for track suggestions and was was thinking of Watkins Glen or Road America since they are both reasonably wide and well known (at least to me).

I like the tire heat issue, fun stuff.  Now... if we can only find a car that overheats it’s brakes....

What can I say, I just like funky old stuff that works different than you would expect modern stuff to.

BradLTL
BradLTL SuperDork
3/11/18 10:48 a.m.

My typical test tracks are Sugo and Motorsports Arena A. Sugo showcases braking, change of direction and acceleration; while Arena A helps identify the balance (over/under-steer), and overall grip. I like to test on consistent tracks so I have a frame of reference and learning a track doesn’t take away from learning the cars. 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/11/18 10:52 a.m.

Regarding Corvair: I also spot bumperettes, not on the option list (bumpers could have been swapped.)  I think you will want to check the hidden VIN.  I don’t see any reason why someone would swap to the wrong body tag.  Hidden VIN is behind the right front suspension tower.  You should be able to just see it with the suspension in (depending on undercoating situation of course).

The lack of script on the front leads to the possibility of a very complete repaint, which “might” be good, and would explain the lack of rust (hopefully repaired well).  Original paint would likely be very rough at this point anyway.

Also, I don’t know if I have your email, I will message you.  I have a couple of quick ref cards I made / assembled that are likely of interest.

 

 

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