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FSP_ZX2
FSP_ZX2 Dork
7/31/18 12:12 p.m.
Cooter said:
FSP_ZX2 said:

 I make a nice living selling H-D bikes in Milwaukee

And now this whole thread makes perfect sense. 

What?  Because I'm excited and encouraged that the MoCo is expanding their horizons?  Am I wrong for that as a motorcycle enthusiast who happens to make a living with H-D? 

 

 

Cooter
Cooter Dork
7/31/18 12:19 p.m.
Xceler8x said:

 

Oddly enough, I like the electric bike the most. I just wish it was smaller.  

 

Look into Zero Electric Motorcycles  They are pricey, but as close to what I am looking for in an EV as I have seen, and Made in The Good Ol' US of A (in California)

Cooter
Cooter Dork
7/31/18 12:23 p.m.
FSP_ZX2 said:
Cooter said:
FSP_ZX2 said:

 I make a nice living selling H-D bikes in Milwaukee

And now this whole thread makes perfect sense. 

What?  Because I'm excited and encouraged that the MoCo is expanding their horizons?  Am I wrong for that as a motorcycle enthusiast who happens to make a living with H-D? 

 

 

Uh Huh. 

 

I have never seen a mere "enthusiast" who was so defensive about a marque before. But plenty of people who felt that their livelihood was attacked. 

Funny that there was no disclosure of this in the thread until it suited you .

Nick Comstock
Nick Comstock MegaDork
7/31/18 12:32 p.m.

In reply to Cooter :

It wasn't a secret. He's mentioned it several times in the past. 

FSP_ZX2
FSP_ZX2 Dork
7/31/18 12:33 p.m.

In reply to Cooter :

I have been hanging around these parts for at least 10 years and have 'disclosed' on more than several occasions over the last 7 years what I do--to the point that members here have done business with me. 

 

 

 

Ram50Ron
Ram50Ron Reader
7/31/18 12:48 p.m.

I don't understand the hate for  FSP getting excited about new bikes from a company he has been a partner with for many years, it's right on his profile.  Next we're going to be getting testy with happy Ford dealers in Dearborn when a new Mustang or F150 is announced. 

I am not a bike guy but having worked for Harley's main casting supplier in the past and having many friends either working for Harley or one of their local suppliers I'm excited to see how this pans out for them.  There's always going to be critics, if they jumped straight to a truely competitive sport bike people would be complaining that the stole Buell's designs or copied Yamaha, blah blah blah.  Baby steps guys, baby steps.

Dave
Dave Reader
7/31/18 12:57 p.m.

I think part of their problem is a lot of people really don't like the brand (fair or not). They don't want to be associated with H-D. So bringing out a product that is just as good as something else is not going win converts. They need something amazingly compelling over the competition to get people who wouldn't normally give it a chance. Something not offered elsewhere.

But bringing out something ordinary/average at a premium price isn't going to win over any reluctant buyers.

Cooter
Cooter Dork
7/31/18 1:06 p.m.

In reply to Ram50Ron :

There was no hate about him getting excited. But he called others "ignorant haters" for pointing out general trends they have seen from H-D in the past. Which struck me as odd, as I don't usually see such a strong reaction unless someone has a vested interest. 

I have been here 10 years myself, and while some here know me pretty well, others might not even recognize my U.N. 

 

There is plenty more I could discuss, such as the contention that Erik was cut loose because he wasn't any use for R&D since he wasn't using traditional air cooled pushrod HD engines in some of his bikes anymore, and all of these new bikes don't either, but this thread is pretty silly; I can go to a dealership and get the same rebuttals from a salesman there. 

 

I'll see myself out, and head to the KTM dealer. Again. 

Ram50Ron
Ram50Ron Reader
7/31/18 1:35 p.m.
Cooter said:

In reply to Ram50Ron :

But he called others "ignorant haters" for pointing out general trends they have seen from H-D in the past. Which struck me as odd, as I don't usually see such a strong reaction unless someone has a vested interest. 

Fair enough, carry on. I'll go back to lurking haha

wheelsmithy
wheelsmithy SuperDork
7/31/18 1:57 p.m.

Gonna have to call that the most attractive electric bike I've seen. For me, the rest are sort of so-so. I'm hoping HD sticks around.

Rusnak_322
Rusnak_322 Dork
7/31/18 2:07 p.m.

I like the white one on the bottom right (except for the headlight). But the problem I see is that it is covered with black plastic like all other new bikes. That exhaust in the pic looks nice, but I bet it is only a cover. Let the dam motor and other parts show. Don't cover it in cheap plastic. And if you are going to do a cover, make it metal or paint the plastic. Their big bikes don't have that problem. 

I I am more attracted to vintage bikes because the aesthetics. HD is all about looks. they can do better with these bikes (and the street series).  

Xceler8x
Xceler8x UberDork
7/31/18 3:17 p.m.

In reply to FSP_ZX2 :

I can't speak to your dealership. Maybe you guys do it right? I know Waugh HD in Orange VA was pretty good. The others I've visited in VA were not. I've owned three Buells so maybe that had something to do with it? I wasn't quite "In" because I chose to ride something a bit different? 

I'm just saying...if HD is going to win they need to bring something big. Indian is doing pretty damned well. You'd think HD could do as well considering they're head start in the industry. 

In reply to Cooter :

Thanks Cooter. I'll check on Zero Motorcycles. Looks interesting. 

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro PowerDork
7/31/18 4:03 p.m.

Honestly, if I were shopping an electric motorcycle I would be looking at the HD simply because of the dealer network.

Last time I checked, the closest Zero dealer to me was a 12 hour drive away.

I've ridden a Zero, they're pretty awesome. They're just cost prohibitive.

pres589
pres589 PowerDork
7/31/18 4:05 p.m.

Same goofed-up v-angle to the engine.  And what's with that fork rake angle?  This is pointless; "honey I shrunk the V-Rod".  

NoMini
NoMini PowerDork
7/31/18 7:36 p.m.

The Pan American reminds me of the Nova prototype. 

 

Maybe it's the gray? 

Nick Comstock
Nick Comstock MegaDork
7/31/18 8:26 p.m.

The more I look at that Pan American the more it's growing on me. Put some non knobby tires on it and I'd love to see how it compares to my Yamaha. Unfortunately it'll probably be three times as expensive 

I would also love to have that LiveWire as a daily commuter. If it's within $5K of the most expensive Zero model I would certainly consider one. I've been strongly leaning towards an electric bike for commuting duties. 

 

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
7/31/18 8:32 p.m.

I'd consider the electric one, but only if it came with a 185dB sound system that made really obnoxious "vroom vroom" noises.  Otherwise, what's the point?

stuart in mn
stuart in mn UltimaDork
7/31/18 9:06 p.m.
Dr. Hess said:

I'd consider the electric one, but only if it came with a 185dB sound system that made really obnoxious "vroom vroom" noises.  Otherwise, what's the point?

The silence would be a big part of the attraction to me.

NoMini
NoMini PowerDork
8/1/18 12:35 a.m.
Dr. Hess said:

I'd consider the electric one, but only if it came with a 185dB sound system that made really obnoxious "vroom vroom" noises.  Otherwise, what's the point?

The prototype did make artificially accentuated noise. 

Suprf1y
Suprf1y UltimaDork
8/1/18 7:17 a.m.
Dave said:

But bringing out something ordinary/average at a premium price isn't going to win over any reluctant buyers.

It's worked for Honda for a lot of years.

All the motorcycle manufacturers are guilty of this, especially the Japanese, but this does appear to be a particularly lame attempt.

When you spend a great deal of effort developing your image a certain way and alienate a significant percentage of motorcycle owners in the process it's going to be a long haul to try and win them back as customers

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
8/1/18 8:35 a.m.

I've wanted the Live-Wire since it came out.  It's the first Harley that ever made me raise an eyebrow.

 

There, I said it. 

Xceler8x
Xceler8x UberDork
8/1/18 9:49 a.m.
Suprf1y said:

When you spend a great deal of effort developing your image a certain way and alienate a significant percentage of motorcycle owners in the process it's going to be a long haul to try and win them back as customers

I don't think HD set out to alienate riders. I think it just happened as they went the boutique route with their pricing ala Ducati while also courting the "outlaw" stereotype. I'd say it's kind of like hanging out with cowboys. Real cowboys are fun guys to hang with. They have great stories! They're often just comfortable doing what they're doing. No pretense. Hanging out with pretend cowboys are pretty much the opposite of that. 

HD did themselves no favors by halting their motorcycle development for decades. Anyone who wanted a modern cycle with a retro look was forced to go to a foreign manufacturer. Consumers remember this stuff. Check out the Vrod. Everyone I've talked to who rode that bike really liked it. Some liked it but couldn't get past the HD image and just sold the thing. It's really a strange phenomenon. The only parallel culture might be Porsche owners. 

At least on this board it seems the LiveWire is getting positive responses. Maybe that's HD's return vehicle? It could work out really well. Almost like how EV Motorhomes may revolutionize that segment. 

davefla
davefla New Reader
8/1/18 10:39 a.m.

In reply to Trans_Maro :

"Congratulations to HD for once again figuring out how to build a 10 year old Japanese motorcycle."

The Buell XB9S Lightning debuted as a 2003 model, and the 1125CR as a 2009. They're both farther ahead AND behind the curve than you're giving them credit for! ;-)

 

FSP_ZX2
FSP_ZX2 Dork
8/1/18 10:51 a.m.
Anyone who wanted a modern cycle with a retro look was forced to go to a foreign manufacturer.

This is the stereotype that H-D has to overcome.  I'm pretty sure when I say this--H-D was the 1st manufacturer that had standard EFI across the board on it's offerings, and H-D was the first to offer F/R disc brakes across the board on it's offerings.  They were also a leader in ABS across the board.  Just because H-D uses an air-cooled, pushrod engine (on most of its bikes) does not mean that they are not "modern" in the rest of the packaging.

In speaking to many engineers at the MoCo, that in fact is their biggest challenge--to build a modern, reliable, comfortable, and safe bike in a retro looking and retro sounding package is not the easiest thing.

davefla
davefla New Reader
8/1/18 10:58 a.m.

In reply to Xceler8x :

"I don't think HD set out to alienate riders. I think it just happened as they went the boutique route..."

Like you, I've owned three Buells. When I bought my 2000 Blast (it was my first street bike) the dealership was still located downtown and the showroom was in a steel addition to the original, early 20th century building. The bikes were parked bar end to bar end. Four years later I bought an XB12R at the new 'boutique' where shirts and dressing rooms appeared to take up more floor space than motorcycles. I still wonder if it was a good move, but they did seem to get more women onto saddles after.

I went back for demo rides every year until Buell Motor Co. went under. I was only asked when I planned to move up to a V-Rod on one occasion, a trip to the parts counter. ;-) 

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