Track days on smaller-displacement bikes?

The central question: Is showing up to a track day on a 400cc bike a recipe for misery and terror?

As a means of supplementing the relatively expensive track days, there's a local group that runs at a kart track, which is a massive track-time-per-dollar arrangement. They allow up to 600cc fours, 675 triples, and slightly larger twins. However, it seems pretty clear that those are all too large for the track, the full-size bikes can't keep their tires warm (I wonder, really)... Generally I'm sure it helps skills, but seems pretty suboptimal.

A local shop has a nicely prepped FZR400 I was thinking of going to drool over/see whether I can fold myself up that small (hey, I've got all winter to do yoga, right? Currently 6', 190lb, and not very limber)

Just wondering whether that's going to be an unhappy medium, a little too close to full-size for the kart track, and constantly having everybody and their dog passing me on the straights when I go to the "real" track. Given the accessibility of power in bikes, I figure it might be like doing track days in a Miata when everybody else shows up in a 'vette, regardless of cornering skill.

I've only done a handful of track days, I need to knock two years of rust off, and the very last day I did was when an instructor told me I could move up to the middle group, and I started spending an inordinate amount of time pulling off and getting let back out because I was being held up (no passing in C group); so it'll probably be a while before a significant part of B group is holding me up in the corners after blowing me away down the straight.

Would love to grab a tiny bike for the kart track and a fuller-sized bike for the big track, but for someone who just sold his only bike six months ago, that's getting pretty carried away.

To be honest, you probably want a supermoto for the kart track, which obviously won't be as good on the big track.  The FZR400 might be able to do it but I'm not sure, I've never ridden one to know how tight they could corner.  My CB-1 (400 also) would have been pretty ungainly on the kart tracks I've run minis on.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

It's possible that the kart track isn't quite the bargain I want it to be. I'm not against a supermoto, and I know every discipline improves every other discipline, but I'm more interested in riding in the "road race" style, and tinkering along those lines as well. Add in that I live an hour from the kart track and fifteen minutes from the big track... But $50 with no real sessions, ride 'til you're cooked... It's a compelling thought.

Maybe I'll just tuck that away 'til I stumble into a supermoto I can't pass up.

Thanks!

If you get a tiny supermoto (less cornering clearance) the best way around the kart track will still be knee-down roadrace style- these pictures are from a CRF/XR/TTR 100-125 spec class:  

I raced a FRZ400 back in the 1990s. Great bike, awesome cornering ability. But it is a vintage bike now - 30+ years old. Parts will be hard to find and you could get a prepped 600cc supersport a few years old for the same amount that will corner faster, brake harder and have modern suspension and tire sizes.  

Hell, a lightly modded SV650 track bike was killing well sorted superbike FZR400s back when the SV first came out, and not just on the straights.

Small cc bike are way more fun then one would think for track days.  There better at teaching you the line and how to ride fast then a bike that can motor out. 

I was racing my RD350 and my built XR100 with the vintage club but after my carplal tunnel Doc said get a 4 stroke but i've just not gotten around to prepping one, to busy flat track'in.

A friend of mine runs on a similar small track here, he uses a Honda Hawk 650 twin.

In reply to stuart in mn :

Interesting...

I suppose instead of leaning entirely on the GRM brain trust, I should ping the local group for this track and ask what the pros and cons are. There are certainly people on one of pretty much anything, but there's nothing on their site or FB group about how well-suited the different options are. What's ideal to the circuit, and who's wrestling a pig in order to get seat time?

If you want to go small there are tons of R3 / CBR300's out there cheap and dropped that would make a much better selection. 

Or if you want ubiquitous, the original Ninja 250 is hard to beat. And if you end up not liking it, you can sell it for what you bought it for. 

I got some feedback from the group that runs at the kart track, and yeah, anything resembling a full size bike (e.g. a 600 or larger) can be ridden around the track, but you wouldn't really want to... The flipside observation is that it's no fun sharing the track with literbikes at a track day when you're on a 300. PIR has a long front straight, and fast back nearly-straight, so you spend a bunch of time with bikes going by with 80mph in hand. The back "straight" is also curved with a wall on the inside, so you know folks are closing at warp six and won't actually be able to see you 'til they're a lot closer than they would on a real straight. Basically, it sounds like you really wouldn't want to do track days on a 300 unless the group you run with has a small-bike session, and most don't.

Hopefully eventually I'll wind up with the right tool for each job. I'll wait and see which one I get wound up about first.

If you want to run on a kart track, why not get a kart?

In reply to chaparral :

Very funny... Really, I'd like to do that, too.

Autocross, track days, wheel to wheel, time trials (isn't the term Time Attack a little bit Xtreme Sportz?)... I don't expect to dabble in competition on bikes again, so it might make more sense to focus on skills for cars, where I will compete. OTOH, the bike track days I've done have been really rewarding. I need to do some more car track days and see if I get some of that same feeling. I certainly have a head start with cars.

The kart track seems like a good way to get cheap seat time; I feel like a small bike is more like a big bike than a kart is like a car, though it's very clear that karting is an excellent exercise for driving. Both would be good fun and good practice. Only so much time and money...

I don't have any useful advice, but I'm local and would love to do a trackday or two on a bike. I've got a 350cc single JDM naked sportbike, 350cc Supermoto, and 550cc V-twin Supermoto.

If you end up getting a bike and running at MAC track or PIR, I might come out and keep you company if you could tolerate a cautious rank noob. 

In reply to ae86andkp61 :

I've only done five track days at PIR, ORP, and the Ridge and currently have zero bikes, so you're ahead of me at the moment, and well-stocked for Mac-track-compatible bikes... But I'd say "cautious rank noob" is a descriptor I'd wear happily. Track days are awesome.

Oregon Lightweight Moto is the local group that runs at the Mac track; I'm not totally sure, but it sounds like a membership at the track may allow usage even apart from their events.

It'd be fun to catch up; at this point I know I at least want to go watch an OLM day and check it out in person. I'm moving, have too many projects, etc etc... So I'm not 100% certain I'll get back on track next season, but I'm hopeful.