Basically what the title says.
It's trash day today. The guy two streets up tossed out the OE exhaust for his Honda s2000, and his neighbor tossed out one of those Dyson ball vacs.
I know that if I find something on the side of the road I can put it on my challenge car for $0 budget hit.
If I find free stuff on the side of the road, can I trade for parts and put them on my challenge car for $0 budget hit?
Yes you too can have all your neighbors talk about you but document.
Sweet.
Exhausts were gone, but I snagged 2 vacuums. Held eye contact with nosey neighbor to establish dominance. Made sure to rifle through the trash can while he was watching and snagged an old laptop as well. If it's working will use it for the ancient tuning program the CRX uses.
Stampie (FS) said:Yes you too can have all your neighbors talk about you but document.
I'm kinda impressed with how many photos of other people's trash you 'get away' with taking
CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) said:Held eye contact with nosey neighbor to establish dominance.
If you want to take it to the next level, engage the nosy neighbor in conversation. Tell them you hope they're doing well, and thank them for keeping an eye on things, then tell them to keep up the good work, in a tone that implies they're working for you.
They seem to get excited by this recognition, and often are so happy they turn red with embarrassment and have trouble speaking.
Umm, guys, I thought this was against the rules. I'd love to be proven wrong, and we do have some heavyweights saying it is okay, but if I say, find a washing machine, fix it for zero $, and trade it for some sweet chrome reverse wheels, they're in for a zero $ budget hit?
wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) (Forum Supporter) said:Umm, guys, I thought this was against the rules. I'd love to be proven wrong, and we do have some heavyweights saying it is okay, but if I say, find a washing machine, fix it for zero $, and trade it for some sweet chrome reverse wheels, they're in for a zero $ budget hit?
the difference is labor to fix it.
pick up a broken dishswasher and the broken one is 'in budget' for free. If you trade it as is, then whatever you trade for is similarly 'in budget'. But if you fix it (might take parts and labor) and trade or sell, you are now selling or trading your labor. trading labor for a part is covered in the rules. Does that help?
It's sort of a fine line though, I get it. If I buy a parts car and disasemble it, there could be an argument that my labor in taking it apart and listing the parts for sale individually has value that isnt really included.
Be careful about taking items without permission. There may be local laws you're breaking. I always ask before taking anything. Taking a laptop might give someone the impression you were looking for personal information. Perhaps the vacuum pick up was a "cover". People have been shot for less by "some crazy ole coot". I certainly wouldn't want anyone rifling through my garbage without permission and taking one of my old computers. Several of mine have been stolen and created lots of problems.
As an example there are laws in some areas concerning recyclables to avoid organized scavenging for profit. This keeps people from driving from house to house taking all the most profitable materials out of recycle bins. Where I lived up North the scavengers on the bottom of the socio-economic ladder would go to the commuter parking areas and dump the 55 gallon drum garbage cans over to get the beer cans & bottles with deposits leaving all the trash on the ground.
We have bulk pickup every week here where almost anything but tires and glass will be taken. There are regular pickers who drive through on bulk day with beat up old trucks and take all the metal items off the piles. The bulk piles are generally considered free to pick from but go into someones regular bin and you're sure to get a visit from a LEO even though the bin set out for streetside pickup is in the "right of way" and therefore not within the curtilage.
The short of it is be careful, it's not worth anyone getting hurt or in legal trouble.
In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :
i would argue that if no part of said dishwasher is used on the challenge car, then the whole deal is "unrelated transaction" similar to this example quoted from 2000challenge.com/rules:
If you buy a part for $40, decide it won’t work, then resell that part for $50, you may not recoup $10. Leave this unrelated transaction out of your budget sheet entirely.
so to the OP's OP, i'd say the free S2000 exhaust could be used as challenge trade fodder but i think the free vacuum cleaner doesn't fit the intent of the rules.
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
If the free vacuum cleaner is traded for Challenge car parts then it becomes related. For example I have a scrapper two doors down. He's a cool guy and I send my scrap his way. If I out and about and see some aluminum scrap on the side of the road I can grab it and then trade it to him for say some sheet metal to make a firewall. He's happy because the aluminum is worth more. I"m happy because I get a stronger firewall.
sleepyhead the buffalo said:Stampie (FS) said:Yes you too can have all your neighbors talk about you but document.
I'm kinda impressed with how many photos of other people's trash you 'get away' with taking
I try to be respectful about it. I don't go inside a bin or can. If I'm working I'll wait until I"m off to go back or I'll explain why I want it if I can talk to them. Don't need people to call my company complaining about me.
I don't care what the laws say, if something good is out in the trash it's getting picked up. I'm doing the environment a service by not letting it go to a landfill
i'm all for peaceful civil disobedience. That's my jam.
Someone discharged a weapon in my very near proximity while I was trying to rescue a fridge from down by the tracks recently.
I believe they thought I was dropping off rather than picking up.
As to the original conversation, I'm in for learning, and appreciative. Didn't mean to shoot holes in your plan, O.P.
I agree with the interpretation that it is an unrelated transaction if no part of the object you picked up is used on the car.
For example: I got a killer deal on Ebay for a flywheel and clutch set for a challenge build, $95. After some additional research I decided I wanted to go with a different setup. I sold the setup on Craigslist for $170 and used the money to buy a $138 flywheel and $43 clutch set. My total out of pocket spend was $106 (95+138+43-170). As much as I would like to use my true out of pocket cost of $106 as my budget cost, I can't because the $95 purchase and $170 sale fall under the unrelated transactions rule. Therefore I must put $181 in my budget regardless of the actual cash that left my wallet.
Sure I could argue that I traded the first flywheel and clutch set for some green rectangular pieces of paper and then traded that green paper for the other flywheel and clutch set, but that would violate the spirit of the challenge and the don't be a *%#@**!% rule.
Sounds like we have some honest disagreement. Hopefully Tom will pop in an issue a clarification.
I like the idea of up-cycling discarded items into challenge parts. There is a long tradition in the challenge of using non-automotive parts on our cars (from Wheels777 AC ducting in the Datsun down to Stampie's edging from last year), as well as using trades to stretch the budget. This would merely allow competitors to use these two rules in tandem.
Besides, the stories of people trying to trade junked dishwashers for turbochargers and race rims will be hilarious.
If you trade something for something, the cost of the original item goes in your budget.
If I bought an engine 20 years ago for $100 and trade that for an intake and a carb, then I take a $100 budget hit.
The original cost of the vacumes was $0 if he fixes them for $20 and trades them for an intake then he should take a $20 budget hit.
Hey Tom, can you make a ruling here?
I'm pretty sure the rules say I can trade stuff i found on the curb for parts that will go on the car and take a 0 dollar budget hit, but we have some disagreement and I don't want to be a dick. And this vacuum is taking up room in my garage.
Any thoughts?
In reply to CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) :
If it's a lonely weekend you could bring it inside.
Bump for ruling.
I need to trade this dyson vac that i found on the curb for a set of 15" wheels for my challenge car with $0 budget hit. Legal under rules?
NOT A TA said:Be careful about taking items without permission. There may be local laws you're breaking. I always ask before taking anything. Taking a laptop might give someone the impression you were looking for personal information. Perhaps the vacuum pick up was a "cover". People have been shot for less by "some crazy ole coot". I certainly wouldn't want anyone rifling through my garbage without permission and taking one of my old computers. Several of mine have been stolen and created lots of problems.
As an example there are laws in some areas concerning recyclables to avoid organized scavenging for profit. This keeps people from driving from house to house taking all the most profitable materials out of recycle bins. Where I lived up North the scavengers on the bottom of the socio-economic ladder would go to the commuter parking areas and dump the 55 gallon drum garbage cans over to get the beer cans & bottles with deposits leaving all the trash on the ground.
We have bulk pickup every week here where almost anything but tires and glass will be taken. There are regular pickers who drive through on bulk day with beat up old trucks and take all the metal items off the piles. The bulk piles are generally considered free to pick from but go into someones regular bin and you're sure to get a visit from a LEO even though the bin set out for streetside pickup is in the "right of way" and therefore not within the curtilage.
The short of it is be careful, it's not worth anyone getting hurt or in legal trouble.
Actually the law is pretty clear on discarded trash. It's public domain once put out. It's well settled law and been upheld all the way up.
Crazier said:If you trade something for something, the cost of the original item goes in your budget.
If I bought an engine 20 years ago for $100 and trade that for an intake and a carb, then I take a $100 budget hit.
The original cost of the vacumes was $0 if he fixes them for $20 and trades them for an intake then he should take a $20 budget hit.
Where does fair market value come in? I still have many parts customers have left with me to discard but couldn't bring myself to actually throw away. Among them is a Saenz 5 speed and at least a few V12's.
CrustyRedXpress (Forum Supporter) said:Bump for ruling.
I need to trade this dyson vac that i found on the curb for a set of 15" wheels for my challenge car with $0 budget hit. Legal under rules?
I say do it and if anyone questions you about it say "Why don't you grab a beer from my cooler over there and we'll talk about it?" If you document it I don't see anyone going shiny happy person and protesting.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
I think it really depends on the circumstance with regard to the protests. If someone is near the top and needs to protest another person to move up I can see the wrong sort of person becoming a shiny happy person.
On the other hand few of that sort would really be attracted to the whole idea.
I've only seen one shiny happy person at the Challenge. Maybe a couple of people that violate the don't be a dick rule just by breathing.
In reply to Stampie (FS) :
I honestly wish it was an event I could go to. I love to see creativity and originality. Especially when it's done on a modest budget. It seems like my sort of crowd.
I can even understand a few people stressed out because things aren't working etc. That's just part of racing. I try to help whenever doing so doesn't add to the stress. Some guys built the car themselves and see the offer of help as an intrusion. I tend to stand back and try to judge if help is really help or a further stress point.
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