Huge parts lot FMV approval request, please!

EDIT:  Updated numbers farther down the page, justifications being added.  Please go to that post, and if you approve, maybe quote the price list image in your approval.  Maybe wait until a few people have spoken, in case there ends up being any further debate about parts values.

Three years, ago, I bought a massive engine/transmission/turbo parts lot from fellow GRMer Patrick.  At the time, I had no plans to use any of it in the challenge, and still may not, but there is a chance, and I did some digging last year to find FMV values for it.  I may have missed some other stuff he included, but that would just reduce the challenge value, so I decided to follow the "Don't be a dick" rule about it, and just listed the parts I know came from this lot.  Being as I checked these numbers last year, they are pre-tariff, which I think makes some sense, since they were bought a ways back, too.  I've copied the text from the link above, and added my comments about FMV in bold.

 

VALUES LISTED HERE ARE OBSOLETED - PLEASE LOOK FURTHER DOWN IN THE THREAD

Ad:

 

 

 

FMV Estimates:

 

ENGINE:

Block:  17K mile 2017 LY6 6.0 gen4 from a box truck.  dropped a valve, broke a piston, got it from my uncle's freightliner dealer.  block looks good.   - Block and crank were damaged – valued as ~ 210 lbs of scrap metal (@87/ton for iron = $9.14

Heads:  from same.  rectangle port ls3/L92 leads.  one dropped a valve, and will need chamber work or buy one head.  other is mint.  on the damaged head, it looks like the valve seats were not hit and for challenge I was planning to smooth the dings and put valves in and if they sealed I was planning to hit send. One head is bad, value as 28 lbs of dirty aluminum. (@.15/lb for dirty aluminum = $4.20) Value good head at $250, about half what I am seeing for sets of used 823 heads

Valve covers from same Able to get at a upull yard. (Bessler's 2* (19.94 + 4.00 core + 1.99 env fee) = $51.86)

Crank: 6.0 LQ4 (28X) that is in good condition – Able to get at a upull yard. (Bessler's 39.68 + 5.50 core + 3.97 env fee = $49.15)

Rods: gen4 in good shape that I bought as a set – not easy to get from a upull around here, too new. Seeing $80-100 on FBM. Call it $80 to be fair.

Pistons:  new in box sealed power hypereutectic flat top for the gen4 pistons – $364.99 from Summit or Jegs before shipping, assuming pick up in store since they are in state

Cam:  new LS3 takeout. - Since it was removed(even if from a new engine, I don't want to call it new. Found used for $50-100 on FBM. Call it $50 to be fair.

Lifters and rockers from the 6.0 - please get new rockers for the offset ones as these are factory weak points and why this happened. - not sure these should be valued much beyond the heads, how about $40?

Intake: fabricated aluminum intake with fuel rails and 102mm throttle body – generic, found a YESHMA one that looks like it on Amazon for $378.69

used truck water pump, balancer, accessory bracket with power steering pump – not really sure if these should be valued much beyond the block, lets say $40?

one pair of exhaust manifolds to chop up if you so choose – Able to get at a upull yard. (Bessler's 2 * (29.76 + 6.00 core + 2.98 env fee) = $77.48)

99-03ish truck harness and pcm to work with the 24x crank and the cable throttle body - not pruned to standalone nor programmed, just stock. – Able to get at a upull yard. (Bessler's PCM 37.21 + 7.00 Core + 3.72 Env Fee + Engine harness 45.15 + 5.00 Core + 4.52 env fee = $102.60)

 Engine total $1498.11

TRANSMISSION:

BOP short tail TH400 that was professionally built but cracked the bellhousing in a drag car, which will be fixed by the included: -not sure how to value this. Seeing working TH400s for $200-400 on FBM, but this one is supposed to be built, but also has a cracked bellhousing, which would hurt value. How does $350 sound?

New JW Ultrabell bell housing.  How it works:  cut off the original cracked bellhousing and bolt this one on through the pump bolts, SFI certified, chevy pattern.– Summit has it new for $469.88, but this one is missing bolts and o rings. How about $400?

new 10" 3500 stall torque converter – appears to be an eBay special $299.95 converter

Transmission total $1049.95 

 

TURBO:

New godspeed 72mm turbo – could not find for sale new. Assuming it is similar to the CXRacing 72mm turbo at $253.63 or eBay turbos at $184.99

New ebay intercooler – it's 27x7x2.5. Cheapest equivalent I found was maXpeedingrods on Amazon for $70.99

New universal intercooler piping kit -FMICPP-U-25-ST-90D part number. Listed at $103.99 out of stock on protuninglab.com, don't see it elsewhere.

New wastegate -found a receipt in the box for $67.94

New offshore adjustable fuel pressure regulator – found a similar one on eBay for 36.79, but it had a gauge and some etra fittings this one doesn't have, so how about $20?

New ebay BOV -BOV-RS-PP on the ox. Appears to be the Purple Universal blow off valve on ebay. Found it for $31.89

For GRM only i will include new genuine siemens deka 80# injectors and stainless ebay turbo headers at $2500 but will not go lower.  Will leave up here as I continue to clean out the garage then if nobody bites i'll list elsewhere -Part # F127B00418. Cheapest I could find real ones was $53.20 a piece at siemensdekafuelinjectors.com. $425.60 Headers, cheapest I found something similar on eBay was $109.88

 

Turbo total = $1015.28 (with turbo at $184.99)

 

Grand Total = $3563.34

If you think I am way off on anything, please let me know.  If you think this is good, please approve in the post, so I can use this thread for FMV.  As I understand, marking these parts on my challenge budget sheet would by FMV*(2500/3653.34), so final challenge price on everything would be as listed below:

VALUES LISTED HERE ARE OBSOLETED - PLEASE LOOK FURTHER DOWN IN THE THREAD

Item                              Price shown above      Challenge budget cost

Block/crank:                 $9.14                                     $6.41

Damaged 823 head: $4.20                                     $2.95

Good 823 head:           $250.00                             $175.40

Valve Covers:               $51.86                                  $36.38

LQ4 crank:                    $49.15                                  $34.48

Gen 4 rods:                  $80.00                                 $56.13

Pistons:                        $364.99                           $256.07

LS3 cam:                      $50.00                                $35.08

Lifters/rockers:             $40.00                               $28.06

Fabricated Intake:       $378.69                            $265.69

Used water pump/balancer/bracket $40.00    $28.06

Truck exhaust manifolds $77.48                            $54.36

99-03 wiring harness and PCM $102.60             $71.98

BOP TH400                         $350.00                       $245.56

Bellhousing                       $400.00                       $280.64

10” converter                     $299.95                         $210.44

72 mm Godspeed turbo $184.99                         $129.79

eBay intercooler               $70.99                           $49.81

intercooler piping kit      $103.99                          $72.96

wastgate                           $67.94                              $47.67

FPR                                     $20.00                           $14.03

eBay BOV                          $31.89                           $22.37

80# injectors                    $425.60                        $298.60

turbo headers                  $109.88                        $77.09

For the sake of argument, I'll take price suggestions from my teammates and Patrick, but for fairness, I won't count them as any of the 5 GRM users for approval.

So, can I please get 5 of y'all to say this is legit?

Maybe we can discuss this on the call tonight.

You bought these from Patrick right?  You gave him $$.  Just itemize that money in a reasonable way and get a receipt for the individual parts.  They aren't an inside deal so as long as you are reasonable about the relative values you are fine.

In reply to nocones :

I figure being they were bought 3 years ago, might make it a bit illogical for us to work out itemized receipts, thus this thread. 

I actually really like the argument you make for fmv, and the way you account and factory for actually paid prices. Im good woth your price list. 

Nothing is popping out to me, and there's a trans for bout tree fiddy, so it passes the legit test for me.

This looks like a heterogeneous parts lot. If you aren't using the whole lot, and therefore don't want the whole $2500 in budget, use the Relative Retail Value formula to determine the budget cost of the individual parts you want to use.

Relative retail value is calculated as follows:

• Assign and prove a fair market value to every part in the lot.

• Add those fair market values together to calculate the total fair market value of the lot.

• Express the fair market value of the part you are pro-rating as a percentage of the lot’s total fair market value.

• Multiply the actual price paid for the lot by that percentage in order to determine the part’s relative retail value.

You shouldn't need peer approval this way, unless you get stuck on some individual FMV. 

eastsideTim said:

In reply to nocones :

I figure being they were bought 3 years ago, might make it a bit illogical for us to work out itemized receipts, thus this thread. 

I'm confused as to why them being bought 3 years ago is a factor?  Unless you are saying you dont have the receipt?

I have a crank I bought 20 years ago I plan on using in my LS4.9 project.  I dont plan on changing the price from that.

Mr_Asa said:

eastsideTim said:

In reply to nocones :

I figure being they were bought 3 years ago, might make it a bit illogical for us to work out itemized receipts, thus this thread. 

I'm confused as to why them being bought 3 years ago is a factor?  Unless you are saying you dont have the receipt?

I have a crank I bought 20 years ago I plan on using in my LS4.9 project.  I dont plan on changing the price from that.

I don't have a receipt for them, and it was bought at $2500 for the whole lot (no price breakouts) as listed in the original for sale thread.  This is why I was trying to come up with FMVs for the individual parts, so, I could break up a heterogeneous lot.  I'd rather not use FMV for each part as my challenge budget value, if I can mark them to a lower price, since I bought them as a lot.

Relevant rule book sections, bolding mine:

 

A part’s cost may be pro-rated by weight or quantity if from a homogeneous parts lot (example: zip ties, nuts and bolts, a box of 20 identical axle shafts, etc.), or relative retail value if it was purchased as part of a heterogeneous parts lot (all-you-can-carry sales, storage unit buyouts, garage cleanouts, etc.) Relative retail value is calculated as follows:

 

1. Assign and prove a fair market value to every part in the lot.

2. Add those fair market values together to calculate the total fair market value of the lot.

3. Express the fair market value of the part you are pro-rating as a percentage of the lot’s total fair market value.

4. Multiply the actual price paid for the lot by that percentage in order to determine the part’s relative retail value.

In my case, I came up with 70.159%

I'd rather not go through the level of documentation for all the parts as shown below in the first 2 bullet points, thus requesting to see if I can get the 5 GRM users to agree.

 

All fair market values used must be proved in your build book with supporting documentation. Ways to prove fair market value include:

 

• Copies of corporate listings of similar items for sale.

• Copies of at least three comparable listings from a peer-to-peer selling website (eBay, Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, etc.)

• A copy of a GRM message board thread where at least 5 users with more than 50 posts have agreed with a proposed fair market value for your item.

Ok I found something that might help. Your $2500 purchase of the parts lot could just simply be a line item in the budget. Then you can sell parts you don't use in order to recoup.

Wait, but that's against the rules?? Well, the rules only say the "car" purchase cannot exceed $2000. There is nothing about buying a part or group of parts over $2000 even though that's probably the intent  And with the recoup limit of $2000, I bet you could sell a bunch of that stuff and come out with a nice favorable budget. No FMV needed, just keep selling stuff you don't use. 

Real answer:

We need more data before agreeing to these values. Show us listings, prices, ebay sold/completed, etc. for each item. I know that's a lot to ask for such a long list, but as a fellow competitor it's not very fair that you get to buy $2500 worth of parts for a "$2000 car".

I'd rather not go through the level of documentation for all the parts...

Showing your work is part of the challenge(see what I did there?)

Peer approval FMV should be a last resort option after the first two methods have failed.

This could be interesting as tariff prices hit.  I'll have to see what I can gather in the next couple days.  This may turn into a very long thread

gumby said:

Showing your work is part of the challenge(see what I did there?)

Peer approval FMV should be a last resort option after the first two methods have failed.

Peer approval in my opinion should only be for parts where it is hard to establish a FMV because it is a rare or uncommon item.  

eastsideTim said:

This could be interesting as tariff prices hit.  I'll have to see what I can gather in the next couple days.  This may turn into a very long thread

 

There are ways to search google before a date.  Might be able to find completed auctions like that?

I'm not a past or current challenge competitor but I am an absolute hoarder and parts whore when it comes to LS stuff. Your prices you have assigned are reasonable and I think you have done a good job weighting the values compared to Patrick's list prices and market value to the 2500 lump sum you two agreed upon.  I think the 823 head and Deka 80 injectors are a good litmus test here as those are commonly sold performance parts in the LS space.  I've sold a few sets of 823 heads myself in the $5-600 range, Deka 80s are ~$400 new from VS Racing when they are in stock.  The $35 LS3 cam is actually going to be a hindrance to you because of the single bolt cam gear and valve springs you are going to have to buy if you want to use that in a cheap junkyard LS.

For the current build, I suspect the only parts I'd use would be the turbo stuff.  The injectors are just too big of a bite, and as you mentioned, the LS3 cam is much more suitable for a Gen 4 engine.  Transmission parts are right out, due to their high value.  Maybe they'd turn up on a future build.  In theory, I could value the junk 823 head higher, assuming it could be made useful, but I marked it to scrap to try to be more fair.  It is highly unlikely I'd ever use it, or the good cylinder head in a challenge build, as the chambers are too big when tossed on a normal gen 3 5.3, or to some extent 6.0, thus the lower price assignment actually weighs the prices of parts I would be likely to use higher.

eastsideTim said:

All fair market values used must be proved in your build book with supporting documentation. Ways to prove fair market value include:

 

• Copies of corporate listings of similar items for sale.

• Copies of at least three comparable listings from a peer-to-peer selling website (eBay, Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist, etc.)

• A copy of a GRM message board thread where at least 5 users with more than 50 posts have agreed with a proposed fair market value for your item.

Since I am dealing with used parts in this case, does a u-pull junkyard count as a corporate listing?  My intent in the list above was only to grab prices for parts I was pretty sure I'd find in the yard.

Why don't you just use LKQ junkyard. They are everywhere and have all the parts listed and anyone doing the challenge could get same parts for the same price.  

In reply to Toot :

I suppose I could, they also tend to charge more for parts than my locally owned yard, so it would make the parts I actually intend to use cheaper.

If going with fmv, when would the time be to establish the value?  Normally prices on this stuff don't fluctuate too much in a year so it hasn't mattered. 
 

but if the tariffs hit and impact used parts prices, then the timing might be important. 
it could also apply if someone bought the part(s) many years ago when the parts were cheaper/more expensive  

is it the value at the time they were obtained? At the time you start working with them? Put them on the car? Assemble the build book? The date of the challenge?

When y'all use an FMV based on three peer-to-peer selling site ads, how do you come up with the price?  Do you just average the three?

I am slowly collecting screenshots of ads for the used that I would not readily find in a upull yard near me.  Which reminds me, regarding my above issue, would you consider LKQ, or other yards to be "corporate", and thus only needing their price list to get an FMV?

Updated list after doing more recent searching.  I would still like overall approval, because there are so many pieces that are up for interpretation.  I'll be posting screencaps/justifications in several posts below.  I will also likely keep updating this post if changes need to be made.  Minimal chance any of this will be used in 2026, but I want to make sure to have approval if it does, and it could turn up in 2027 or later.  I separated some items out a bit more to make it easier to come up with prices.

Reposting the link to the original ad.

First, the scrapping and the cylinder heads. 

Figuring block/crank are about 210 lbs, and effectively scrap.  So, $9.14 FMV assuming $87 a ton.

Cylinder heads - one is good, one is bad.  I'm valuing the bad one as 28 lbs of dirty aluminum scrap at 0.15/lb  Good cylinder head I am valuing at $303.33 based on an average of the screencapped FBM for sale ads.  Please keep in mind the ads are for a pair of heads, and I am valuing a single head.

Going to jump round a bit to try to make the most "controversial" items be the top posts.   Next up, the Turbo 400 and the aftermarket bellhousing  It is supposedly built, but has a cracked bellhousing, so that will need to be cut off.  There is an SFI adapter bellhousing in the lot that appears new, but is missing hardware and instructions.

Since I can't really get an exact value on the Turbo 400 transmission, I went with FBM, and looked for Turbo 400s in general, assuming if mine is indeed built it gains value, but it also loses value by having a cracked bellhousing.  Came up with an FMV of $350

Next, the bellhousing is a JW Utrabell 92451.  Sells for $469.88 on their website, and close to that elsewhere.  I knocked $30 off for the cost and inconvenience of needing to source my own bolts and o rings, so marked FMV at $439.88.  Does that seem alright when valuing it?