I have a car that I paid $180 to get the owner out if a pickle, he never came up with cash to repay me, it's been a year... well you know what's next.
With the current ruleset I understand that I'm at a $180 sell down (reached on the core engine) but what about trading parts on an already max recouped vehicle?
Never one to want to be the root of issues, but it's got a really nice set of Michelins and I can swap for parts that I could use.
Kind of wondering the same thing, I picked up a dune buggy "project" for practically a scrap metal price in order to get the pan, engine, and interior fiberglass "panels" for my Fiat 600 shell and really aren't going to use the big wheels and tires for the car.
MuSTANK said:Kind of wondering the same thing, I picked up a dune buggy "project" for practically a scrap metal price in order to get the pan, engine, and interior fiberglass "panels" for my Fiat 600 shell and really aren't going to use the big wheels and tires for the car.
But a big tire Fiat 600 sounds amazing!
I'm intrigued as the Ford Econobox that I received in exchange for a 4 pk of craft beer has some bits that are worth far more than $18
You may never recoup more than a part or car’s purchase price or fair market value (whichever value you listed on your budget sheet).
Trades count towards your recoup limit, and must be recorded on your budget sheet.
So, if you claim fmv, then you can recoup up to that fmv amount even if you got it for free, correct?
So if the vehicle changed hands at .50$, but the fmv is $750, you can recoup up to $750, correct?
wvumtnbkr said:So, if you claim fmv, then you can recoup up to that fmv amount even if you got it for free, correct?
So if the vehicle changed hands at .50$, but the fmv is $750, you can recoup up to $750, correct?
yes but you'd also have to list it as a $750 purchase
Up to $2000 may be recouped by selling parts originally included with or attached to the Challenge car, related parts car(s), or related parts packages at the time of purchase. You may never recoup more than a part or car’s purchase price or fair market value (whichever value you listed on your budget sheet).
You may not factor gains or losses made from buying, selling or trading unrelated parts into your budget. You may sell or trade parts to yourself for fair market value.
Trades count towards your recoup limit, and must be recorded on your budget sheet.
I've been working under the assumption that selling off parts (originally described as "recoup") is separate from trades, though both selling and trading now share a combined max limit of $2000. This seems to make the most sense considering the intent of the changes to the rules regarding trading, as I don't think it was intended to completely kill the ability to trade if you are also able to sell stuff off to the max of the individual purchase's cost. Also, as noted above, the rules list selling of parts and trading of parts separately, which I interpreted to mean that the selling recoup limitation (to a max of the cost/FMV of car/parts) does not apply to trades, where no such limitation is mentioned.
In the case of the $180 car, this would mean when you hit the individual purchase's selling recoup limit of $180, you'd still have an available max recoup limit of $1820 available for trades, whether from that car or other purchases.
That makes the most sense to me, but of course, it's for Tom to clarify.
Stampie said:You may never recoup more than a part or car’s purchase price or fair market value (whichever value you listed on your budget sheet).
Trades count towards your recoup limit, and must be recorded on your budget sheet.
But...
"You may not list fair market value instead of purchase price on your budget unless you do not have a receipt from the purchase, or depreciation/appreciation has drastically affected the car or part’s value."
Those old rules from 10 years ago are sure looking good ...
SV reX said:Those old rules from 10 years ago are sure looking good ...
berkeley ya!
Edit: I have to look at the bill of sale, but I think I bought my Corolla about ten years ago and those are the rules I've built it to.
In reply to SV reX :
You'd think the DBAD rule would solve most of these issues, but players gonna play the game.
In reply to darkbuddha :
I don't care. I'm not here to worry about how other people cheat. Totally not my problem.
SV reX said:In reply to darkbuddha :
I don't care. I'm not here to worry about how other people cheat. Totally not my problem.
You wouldn't have posted if you didn't care.
poTAHto
darkbuddha said:In reply to SV reX :
You'd think the DBAD rule would solve most of these issues, but players gonna play the game.
The reality is the DBAD actually DOES solve these issues. There are no "players" and there is no "game" at the Challenge. This is a small, tight, relatively unknown community within the larger world of car enthusiasts. There is hardly any clout to be gained, so the juice is not worth the squeeze for the type of shiny happy person who would cheat the budget rules. And there's the concours event that is basically a sniff test to filter for that kind of bullE36 M3. It's a total non-issue.
Just let your conscience guide your interpretation of the rules. Do whatever seems fair and true to the spirit of the Challenge. Remember, this is supposed to be fun!
In reply to maschinenbau :
That's exactly how I feel about it. I've said this before, but I feel like the budget is as much about telling the story as it is for accounting, and no one likes a story (or accounting) full of bs.
In reply to SV reX :
I admittedly bench race the berkeley out of rulesets (poor Tom gets an email every few months from me regarding things that I won't post in here, as the resulting multi-page hornets nest that would potentially occur wouldn't benefit anyone and would just create confusion), that being said, I don't stretch them the rules in actual practice at all. The next time the Ford Econobox makes an appearance, it will be over budget, not because of performance additions, they'll be under budget, but things to improve reliability of the platform, especially as spare bits; especially transmission related pieces, start to dwindle in terms of reliability.
What I am hearing from a lot of people is a whole lot of confusion about budget related issues. Trades, FMV, self-trades, trying to police "players" with more rules, no clarity between what is a car purchase vs a parts deal, people trying multiple methods of accounting to see which is most beneficial, etc.
It's confusing. Apparently to many people. It used to be really simple.
Speaking only for myself, it's a level of confusion I don't enjoy sorting through. I love the event and the participants. I love trying my best to build something that is fun and competitive. I will always enjoy coming to the event. If there is too much confusion to sort through, I may make the choice to attend as a spectator or helper, and not as a competitor.
I'll always be an encourager to others. Just have to decide if "the juice is worth the squeeze" to ME to consider sorting through the budget confusion so that I can be a competitor again.
I don't care to police anyone. I'm sad that it's become difficult and confusing. I'd just like a simple event that I can decide whether I'd like to come play with others.
Carry on.
In reply to SV reX :
It should just be the 2000 x2 challenge. Only purchases go into the budget.
SV reX said:What I am hearing from a lot of people is a whole lot of confusion about budget related issues. Trades, FMV, self-trades, trying to police "players" with more rules, no clarity between what is a car purchase vs a parts deal, people trying multiple methods of accounting to see which is most beneficial, etc.
It's confusing. Apparently to many people. It used to be really simple.
Speaking only for myself, it's a level of confusion I don't enjoy sorting through. I love the event and the participants. I love trying my best to build something that is fun and competitive. I will always enjoy coming to the event. If there is too much confusion to sort through, I may make the choice to attend as a spectator or helper, and not as a competitor.
I'll always be an encourager to others. Just have to decide if "the juice is worth the squeeze" to ME to consider sorting through the budget confusion so that I can be a competitor again.
I don't care to police anyone. I'm sad that it's become difficult and confusing. I'd just like a simple event that I can decide whether I'd like to come play with others.
Carry on.
I go through this process of grappling with budget related stuff here on the forum at the beginning of my planning stage of preparing for the next year's Challenge, to (try to) ensure I'm beyond reproach at the other end (probably because I value my integrity more than actually matters for Challenge purposes). And every time I do this, I spend about a week debating this stuff and then finally reach the conclusion that I'm wasting both my and others' time. My realization is that in the end, only what I do matters for me. As long as I'm good with what I do and believe I'm complying with the rules and acting in the spirit of the rules, it'll be fine. I think I've reached that conclusion point for this year, which is probably good news for everyone.
In reply to darkbuddha :
i'm totally protesting you. first protest in challenge history.
JK, of course. build it, bring it, go fast, let us marvel at it.
This will be my first Challenge build.....car was FMV'd at $250. To keep it simple I have $1750 to spend ... not worried about "recoup" etc. 
In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :
Maybe someone should protest at some point just to get it into the ether that it's a thing that can (should?) be done?
Wyatt, we talked about XR4Tis and other nonsense at the Challenge. I was the dumbass that pushed to open Pandoras box here.
I also stand firm with the idea that if it's built, if it's cool, if it's fun and if it's honest the group will enjoy it.
Cars I adored over the weekend that I wasn't associated with: Big Merc, Piggly Taurus, GTs Z, RX3.9 (although technically it has a QuasiMofosports transmission). I would spend days looking over these cars just to enjoy them.
That's the reason I want to be a part of the Challenge.
I still would love to show up, dominate, get the win, the cover, adoration of my peers and a new welder... LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
The budget thing will work out, I already have resolved my concern, now I need to finish a Corvette so I can start on the Challenge car and maybe, just maybe, get a welder.
In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :
I'm with you 100%. But given that there are rules and new rule changes, seems like it's a necessary evil that Pandora's box needs to be kicked open. Because this is not going to be the last time someone's got questions and needs guidance, especially if we want to see new (more) people involved. Me, I'm good until someone official tells me I'm not. Either way, won't stop me from trying to build and bring something worthy.
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