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Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/13/21 9:19 a.m.

OK, I've got a 2.5 lb tank for my challenge car (only running a 30 shot). Still, I've never used nitrous before and I'm a bit worried about running out before I really figure it all out and get a good run in. 

I already have 1 tank in budget. If I bring a second full tank - I could swap it in if the first runs out but I don't have to budget the backup tank right? Only one would ever be on the car at the same time. 

Would anyone have a problem with this? I'm sure some of the nitrous guys have been in this situation before, I just haven't myself. 

maschinenbau
maschinenbau UltraDork
10/13/21 11:17 a.m.

I'm cool with it but only if you up it to a 75 shot on the first run

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/13/21 11:55 a.m.

Sorry but I have to be constant in my answer. I see this as the electric vehicle question years back. The tanks should be in budget but the gas is free to budget. About to look up the rules.

Nitrous oxide refills do not count toward the budget (however, the cost of the equipment that comes along with a nitrous setup does need to be added to the budget).

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
10/13/21 11:57 a.m.

I haven't ever heard of a 30 shot. Seems kind of...weak. 
 

Somehow, it reminds me of Winston Churchill's recipe for a martini. 

1. fill a glass with gin.

2. using the glass of gin, salute the bottle of vermouth on the mantle piece. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/13/21 12:19 p.m.
Stampie said:

Sorry but I have to be constant in my answer. I see this as the electric vehicle question years back. The tanks should be in budget but the gas is free to budget. About to look up the rules.

Nitrous oxide refills do not count toward the budget (however, the cost of the equipment that comes along with a nitrous setup does need to be added to the budget).

The cost of the equipment is already in budget. I see this as a refill only. 

I could also argue emergency wear and tear if you want to get technical. Just like swapping a used alternator on at the event because your existing and in budget used alternator ran out of magic smoke after the 2nd drag pass. 

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/13/21 12:21 p.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I haven't ever heard of a 30 shot. Seems kind of...weak. 

It's less weak on a 600cc engine that makes 100 hp NA. But yeah, I'd love to run 60.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman SuperDork
10/13/21 12:44 p.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

How much was the bottle? I have spares of a larger variety. 

I also think that it should be treated as a refill when swapping bottles.  

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
10/13/21 1:27 p.m.

I agree it fits the Nitrous oxide refills are budget exempt intent.

The cost of the bottle is already in budget.  You will only ever have one bottle attached to the car at a time.  Swapping one full bottle for the empty bottle has no gain, but acting as a refill.  If you were using both bottles at the same time on the car, then they would both have to be in the budget.

 

 

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/13/21 1:38 p.m.

I feel a spare bottle is like a refill at the track, but it's not my call.  I always have a spare tank in the trailer should i or anybody else run out.  I also have half a dozen nitrous tanks so...

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/13/21 2:57 p.m.

I'm not saying I would protest but slippy slop devil's advocate question.  So the argument is that only one is on the car at a time. My car will only have four tires on it at a time so if I switch two tires then I still only have to budget four total?  I totally understand that refilling at the track is about impossible but I don't think the rules address this as a refill. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
10/13/21 3:02 p.m.

Break the top off the empty one and now it's a replacement part and budget exempt?

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/13/21 3:04 p.m.

I'll add that I would love an official ruling saying that bottle replacement is a refill this is all like my option man.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman SuperDork
10/13/21 4:13 p.m.

In reply to Stampie :

I wouldn't want to use the argument there is only one on the car at a time. Your slippery slope example is exactly was what I was thinking for examples. 
 

Can I deduct the remaining nitrous that came with my bottle as a discount? 

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/14/21 8:45 a.m.
Andy Neuman said:

In reply to Stampie :

I wouldn't want to use the argument there is only one on the car at a time. Your slippery slope example is exactly was what I was thinking for examples. 
 

Can I deduct the remaining nitrous that came with my bottle as a discount? 

Can you deduct the fuel that comes in your car's tank? Or the oil in the sump? I think the rules specifically say exemptions cannot be used for 'budget shenanigans' like recouping with then re-buying items that aren't budgeted. 

As far as the tires argument, the 2 different nitrous tanks are 'functionally equivalent'. It's hard to argue 2 different tires are 'functionally equivalent' if they are an advantage to the racer. If they are functionally equivalent then it is of no advantage to the racer to swap. 

I am driving 2000-2500 miles for this event, and it would suck to have a night of drag racing end early simply because I ran out of a budget exempt fluid. I know how far I'm driving shouldn't matter to the rules but bringing tools and spare parts in case of breakage is a reality of racing that far from home. 

Hopefully I'll just invoke good ol murphy here, and simply by bringing a spare, I will invariably need something else I didn't bring instead. haha. 

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/14/21 8:49 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

Why not ask Tom for a ruling?  Also if you have a hose to connect them, I don't mind bringing an extra full 10lb tank that you can refill with. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
10/14/21 9:01 a.m.

I'll agree this is a weird scenario, so to clarify: swapping bottles counts as a refill. Budget one bottle on your budget sheet, then leave that number alone if you need to swap.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
10/14/21 9:45 a.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I haven't ever heard of a 30 shot. Seems kind of...weak.

It's enough to blow a head gasket in a 3cyl Geo metro if you do it wrong, and enough to make a stock Firefly turbo a whole lot more fun if you do it right.

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/14/21 11:13 a.m.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

See now you're good and we can still drink beers together.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman SuperDork
10/14/21 12:55 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:
 

Can you deduct the fuel that comes in your car's tank? Or the oil in the sump? I think the rules specifically say exemptions cannot be used for 'budget shenanigans' like recouping with then re-buying items that aren't budgeted. 

We allow people to itemize transactions that are actually packaged deals, so next time I'll have the guy write me a receipt stating $120 for the components and $40 for the nitrous.  

I think I can sell my stock wheels and tires and still buy a set of tires for free.  If I can sell used fluids, actual sale not made up sale, I think I should be able to use it as recoup.  

Stampie
Stampie MegaDork
10/14/21 2:29 p.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman :

You can try to sell your used fluids but I'm pretty sure the sperm bank will turn you down.

nocones
nocones UberDork
10/14/21 2:36 p.m.
Stampie said:

In reply to Andy Neuman :

You can try to sell your used fluids but I'm pretty sure the sperm bank will turn you down.

The implications of these fluids being used is wierd...

slowbird
slowbird UltraDork
10/14/21 3:28 p.m.

Has anyone suggested hooking up both bottles yet? Just for E36 M3s and giggles. In case you want to upgrade from a 30 shot to a 300 shot. devil

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/14/21 4:43 p.m.

In reply to slowbird :

i have 900hp jets

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
10/16/21 8:37 p.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I haven't ever heard of a 30 shot. Seems kind of...weak. 
 

Somehow, it reminds me of Winston Churchill's recipe for a martini. 

1. fill a glass with gin.

2. using the glass of gin, salute the bottle of vermouth on the mantle piece. 

My nitrous kit has 30, 50, 75, 100 and 150 hp jets.  In 2022, I will be starting at 30 too.  I will also test the 30 shot per challenge.  I will be going bigger at the challenge but think 100 may be too big.....  

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
10/20/21 4:52 a.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

I haven't ever heard of a 30 shot. Seems kind of...weak. 
 

Somehow, it reminds me of Winston Churchill's recipe for a martini. 

1. fill a glass with gin.

2. using the glass of gin, salute the bottle of vermouth on the mantle piece. 

My nitrous kit has 30, 50, 75, 100 and 150 hp jets.  In 2022, I will be starting at 30 too.  I will also test the 30 shot per challenge.  I will be going bigger at the challenge but think 100 may be too big.....  

Still waiting to see someone run nitrous for the autocross. Maybe your 30 shot is the way to go...

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