I learned with the Forte that swapping to the Amsoil P/S fluid cured 95% of the problems with a cooler loop.
I learned with the Forte that swapping to the Amsoil P/S fluid cured 95% of the problems with a cooler loop.
bobzilla said:I learned with the Forte that swapping to the Amsoil P/S fluid cured 95% of the problems with a cooler loop.
It seems anything better than the factory fluid works to keep it cooler. We are running Dexron IV in the new system as well hoping for good results.
Car is ready to go. Heading down tomorrow to VIR.
Car survived the Lifeline VIR Classic 24 hour endurance race.
Officially car placed 2nd in Class B behind a very well prepared NC Miata(which exploded at 19hours in yet still won). We finished 30th overall out of 79 entries. Car went the full 24 hours with only minor issues.
A Honda S2000 was entered and would have been second place but was disqualified i assume due to the modifications made to it.
The Elantra had a fueling issue during the heat of the day. It kept wanting to burp back out of the vent tube the minute the gas cap was even cracked. So we had to bring it into the pit, let it sit with a jack at the fueling side to keep the car elevated. That seemed to work well to allow it to bleed tank pressure off enough to fuel it.
Around midnight car started to have an issue with a stumble at 5000-5500rpm where it felt like the car hit a brick wall. Just nosed over. We brought it in, found oil in the plug wells and covering the 3-4 plugs. Replaced the plugs, wires and coil along with repairing a coil harness wire that pulled from the plug on the coil.
Went back out and car still had the stumble from 5000-5500. Originally I thought the motor was toast but we then figured it could be the fuel pump starving it up top and started discussion of replacement versus just running the car until it quit then replacement. Car made it another 12 hours running up to 5000rpm without issue to finish the race.
Total laps 387
Total miles 1,266
Car below after the 1200+ mile journey around VIR. Alot of debris, bugs, dirt and fluids covering it.
It ate the passenger side front tire at the 12 hour mark due to me hitting some slick snot at Turn 1 which locked the front brakes up badly. Outer edges were starting to delaminate from both sets of front tires. Rear tires worked like magic without issue and without any excessive wear or problems(perfect race for the Accelera Sport 651 tires). The Toyos did last though and had plenty of grip on this alignment challenged Hyundai.
Overall super happy about the team we had and how the car did. We are looking into changing some items up, modifying more and heading back in March of 2024 for the VIR 12 hour South Course race.
Which part is the outside of the tire in that pic?
If I'm reading correctly, the worn part is the outside.
If this car is a Mac strut front end, grind the shock towers to get more camber! Point free!
Also, if the fuel tank is not breathing well, that can cause all sorts of issues with getting fuel to the engine.
Do you not have the tank vented? Take the stock vent, add a good bit of hose to it, make a loop above the tank and put a fuel filter on the end. That's what a lot of teams do.
Good job! The 24s are grueling!
Also, with the toyos, I have found that giving them a good heat cycle before pounding on them is imperative for endurance racing life.
wvumtnbkr said:Also, with the toyos, I have found that giving them a good heat cycle before pounding on them is imperative for endurance racing life.
Wear is on the inside of the tire. We have -2.5 or more of camber up front. The outer edges were delaminating in the "non-worn" areas.
maybe this pic can help to understand:
We did not heat cycle the Toyos.
Ah,that track does require less camber on the passenger side. I think Nascar is the only loaded left hander.
A tire temp probe will pay for itself in 1 set of tires. They are super useful for tire life!
The outer blocks ripping themselves off can be helped with a heat cycle.
Good work! Finishing a 24 is something to be proud of!
wvumtnbkr said:Ah,that track does require less camber on the passenger side. I think Nascar is the only loaded left hander.
A tire temp probe will pay for itself in 1 set of tires. They are super useful for tire life!
The outer blocks ripping themselves off can be helped with a heat cycle.
Good work! Finishing a 24 is something to be proud of!
Thanks for all of your help. The cool suit worked great and the "fabbricobbling" we did before to get things ready really paid off in the end. Figuring that making things work over being pretty was the benefit of the car. It flat out worked and worked well.
Question for you, would you run less camber to deal with tire wear or keep camber for the handling benefit? We were discussing on how it would have effected us in the long run not having to change front tires versus not having enough camber elsewhere.
Also, is turn 1 notorious for just cars dumping fuel, oil and trans fluid? It was non-stop all weekend. Every time going into 1 was like ice skating depending on where you entered. Kinda sketchy being behind some of the E30's since they loved to dump gas EVERYWHERE.
VIR also notified Champ Car of a ZERO tolerance policy at 11am day of the race that any fuel dumped would be immediate black flag and removal from the race until fixed and approved. You could tell Champ Car was thrown off by that last minute decision.
The new pit lane electric is fantastic though. VIR did some MAJOR upgrades the last 6+ months or so and it shows. Felt like a whole new place.
Any turn 1 right after the pits gets a bit more fluid than other parts of the track. It's especially true at tracks that have slow corners at the end of long straights!
I would say that I heard alot more concerning fuel spillage than other races.
As to the less camber thing on the passenger front... you really shouldn't lose much time because you are only using that camber in 1 corner at VIR. In fact, having too much camber on that corner can hurt you in all of the right hand corners. Basically, you are racing around on a long thin strip of tire instead of a short fat strip of tire.
Just to clarify, I am saying that too much camber doesn't help and CAN hurt corner speeds and certainly destroys tires. This is exactly why taking tire temps will help. The temps will tell you where every tire wants to be as far as alignment AND pressures.
Tire temps won't tell you how to go faster. It will just tell you what each tire "wants".
Just one more point of clarification....
My alignment settings for a race are hardly ever square. Most tracks heavily favor right or left hand turns. We setup the car (with tire temps) to get best wear. However, if there is a place where some more camber could help (based on data), we will cheat the alignment to make the car faster through that section if it improves overall lap times. This sometimes comes at the cost of tire wear.
wvumtnbkr said:Just one more point of clarification...
My alignment settings for a race are hardly ever square. Most tracks heavily favor right or left hand turns. We setup the car (with tire temps) to get best wear. However, if there is a place where some more camber could help (based on data), we will cheat the alignment to make the car faster through that section if it improves overall lap times. This sometimes comes at the cost of tire wear.
After discussing it a bit i think we are going to settle on -2.5 camber and try to lock both sides to that amount. Car worked but wore the p/s tire out after 12 which isnt a huge issue other than needing more front tires than rears.
I do want to get rid of the camber eccentric bolt on the driver side. We had a "bump" at one point which knocked it out of whack which cost us 30 min to reset it and get back out there. To eliminate that failure point would be ideal to keep us on track and out of the pits.
Plan is to slot the tower on the driver side a bit along with the strut lower connection and welding a new washer in place. "Fabbricobbling it" to get it locked in.
In reply to kevinatfms :
that is the way. Worked like a charm for the Rio.
bobzilla said:In reply to kevinatfms :
that is the way. Worked like a charm for the Rio.
Want to remove charcoal canister. Loop the 3 lines together into the existing purge valve to keep CEL off? Basically keep the system intact just remove the canister itself and allow the valve to still work properly.
From what i remember, last time i tried this on my older Elantra it would set the CEL and car would run with reduced power. So i want to make sure i know which way to head.
Finally found a 5 speed manual transmission that isnt an arm or a leg. Its from a 2003 Elantra so it should be a direct fit. Couldnt find a Tiburon 5 speed for the shorter final drive. Oh well.
Trying to source a rebuild kit for it along with bearings and seals.
Hopefully when im done it will have the LSD, new bearings, blocker rings and seals which should be a good refresh before putting it into the car. Next event is the 12hr race at VIR South in March 2024. Alot to do before then.
Used transmission showed up. Dirty as all hell but it seems to be complete without any broken bits.
JE Import Performance is rebuilding the 5 speed box w/ new bearings, blocker rings from Zumbrota drivetrain(huge shoutout to Dan w/ Zumbrota for the parts list and bearing breakdown).
Also ordered a fancy pants Kaaz clutch type limited slip differential for the trans as the OBX DSM helical was the incorrect part number. Kaaz is about the only company left on the planet making parts for a Hyundai gearbox.
Start tearing into the car this week to replace the valve cover gaskets, plug well seals, brakes and exhaust manifold. Will also tackle fuel pump replacement and deletion of the charcoal canister.
Belts and window net need to be replaced as they are out of date. Ultrashield belts and Hostyle custom sized window net will be ordered to get them done.
ALOT of work to do. Canceling the March event and focusing on the VIR 24 hr race again as our next event.
Time to start to replace some of the safety items that have expiration dates:
Ordered a new Ultrashield 5 point harness w/ HANs shoulders, camlock buckle and adjustable crotch strap. We loved the one we purchased to replace the latch & link kit from Racequip which was quite annoying to use. Went with red color this time to help clash with the black seat and allow us to see each strap in the middle of the night. We found out at VIR at midnight that trying to find each end in the near pitch black was quite a pain in the ass.
I want to try a new style of window net mount. The old GM buckle type was such a nightmare to deal with and the angle it was welded into the cage was just flat terrible(my fault!). So we will cut off the old mount and go to a spring pin type mount from Racequip. New window net will be 18"x 18" by Racequip with the straps on the bottom which makes it super easy to tie into the cage. Hopefully this gives us more room to the outside edge of the car and a bit better driver side mirror view.
Need to double check the fire bottle certification date. I replaced it i think either early last year or late 2022. From what i remember they need to be recertified every 3 years? Will dig into that later this week.
Need to drill more holes for the seat back brace. We may be expecting a shorter driver or two this year.
Contemplating on brakes again, lighter wheels(16x7's again but 5+lbs lighter per corner) and 215's instead of the 225's as we will have more grip with the LSD in the trans. The shorter height will help us with the gear ratio also.
Picture of the car from this past weekend. Pulled it out to start it up and let it warm up a bit. My son decided to sign the fender of it...
Do 15s not cover those brakes?
15s have such a better selection for tires. The 245 15s last a LONG time too. It actually saves money in the long run.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Only certain 15's and they are not cost effective. I had this issue ...... 16 years ago when I did that brake upgrade on my GLS. I had to either run Sonata 16x6 (205/50/16) or I ran my Konig 16x7 (225/45/16) wheels. We tried a few different wheels but most hit the caliper. Has to be a thin barrel, and the spokes have to curve out away from the hubface to create space.
VORs SP1's are a knock off of the Spoon EW588 wheel, come in 16x7 +38 4x114.3 and are under 15lbs. Im thinking that is our ticket to reduce unsprung weight. The current Touren TR60 wheels are listed at 24lbs each(yikes).
Tires? 215/45R16 Azenis or 215/40R16 Maxxis VR-1. The 215/40 is a 22.77" tire which would give us quite a bit more acceleration. The other idea would be to continue with the 225/45R16 + 205/50R16 staggered setup?
I have 4 205/50R16 tires that we could use on the rear, just need to pick up the 225 fronts to make two full sets. Would save some money this year versus buying 8 new wheels and 8 new tires. Or go with the 215's for the increase in the acceleration from the shorter height?
Alot to think about.
I think the problem you are going to run into as you want to be more competitive is that 16s are a bit of a dead size.
Both of the tires you mention above are not the fastest or best wearing.
In general, the wider tires are going to last much longer. They won't necessarily provide a faster single lap pace.
Have you done any analysis of shift points and gear overlaps for your engine Trans combo? This can tell you which way you want to go with final drive. Sometimes the results are surprising and actually a taller tire can produce more motive force due to hitting a sweet spot for your average speed for a track.
For example, if you spend most of your time between 80 and 95 mph on track, sometimes you are better off going to a lower final drive in order to keep that speed at the top of 3rd, versus shifting between 3rd and a torque dip into 4th.
In other words, wheel size and tire width impact EVERYTHING. If you plan to stick with this car and continue to race, I'd suggest picking the ideal tire and wheel size and just spend the money ASAP instead of continuing to spend money on something less ideal.
That being said, it's totally possible that your wheel size IS ideal. I wouldn't know without doing the charts.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
It and a lot of Hyundai's and Kia's are saddled with an odd diameter at ~24" stock. EVERYTHING is either taller or shorter. The common tires are usually in the 22.5-23" range (205/50/15, 225/45/15, 205/40/17 etc). Add in that it's a dead bolt pattern now as well (4x114.3) for FWD offsets makes it harder.
I think I told Kevin this before, that if money were no option I'd do the 5-lug tib swap and go to 17x8 wheels 40 offset and ebay/amazon flares and roll some 235/40 tires. You won't gain any acceleration due to gearing but you get a lot more tire and grip so you don't need to accelerate as much lol.
EDIT: plus side to that is you can then go to the later XG350 dual piston calipers and 12" rotors.
bobzilla said:In reply to wvumtnbkr :
It and a lot of Hyundai's and Kia's are saddled with an odd diameter at ~24" stock. EVERYTHING is either taller or shorter. The common tires are usually in the 22.5-23" range (205/50/15, 225/45/15, 205/40/17 etc). Add in that it's a dead bolt pattern now as well (4x114.3) for FWD offsets makes it harder.
I think I told Kevin this before, that if money were no option I'd do the 5-lug tib swap and go to 17x8 wheels 40 offset and ebay/amazon flares and roll some 235/40 tires. You won't gain any acceleration due to gearing but you get a lot more tire and grip so you don't need to accelerate as much lol.
EDIT: plus side to that is you can then go to the later XG350 dual piston calipers and 12" rotors.
I would 100% agree with you. From a rules perspective, that is only an 8 pt hit.
From a money perspective.... well.... I TRY not to spend other racers money for them.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
yeah because then you're sourcing Tiburon hubs and elantra bearings along with rotors and caliper brackets up front and in the rear tiburon bearings (which I JUST threw away a good pair) and rotors along with wheels.
EDIT: Rock auto puts it at about $225 for bearings/hubs and rotors front and rear.
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