2013 Honda CR-Z - SCCA STF Autocross - Honda of America Racing Team

Episode IV - Debut Event

Debuted the car today at the first Northwest Ohio Region SCCA regional event of the 2013 season. Event was held at Toledo Chrysler Machining in Perrysburg, Ohio. Surface is older asphalt, a little crumbly but not terrible, though there was quite a bit of loose gravelly bits all over the place.

Thankfully, I ran the second heat (of three), so the first heat cleaned a lot of that garbage away and gave some time for the day to warm up. Even still, race time weather was 41ºF, Wind 11 mph ESE, Partly cloudy... so... less than ideal. Also, because of some issues with getting our wheels, I wasn't able to use the BFG Rivals sitting in the shop. Instead, I had my rain tires, Continental ExtremeContact DW, 205/50R16, on the stock wheels. Also, because of the late delivery date of the vehicle, only modifications were those described above, shocks and springs and... nothing else, not even numbers! Blue painters tape, enter stage left:

I have my times, but they won't mean much until the full event results are posted, which may be a few days. Overall, the car was decent. It definitely felt slow, but only comparison is a 2011 MINI Cooper S, and a 2002 Honda S2000 that is pretty much maxed out for STR... so not surprising.

Other than that, it felt good. The B-Spec suspension was decent, but I'm definitely going to be trying out some stiffer springs in the future. I have a pair of 6"-2.5"-500lb springs for the fronts, which will also help with the ride height weirdness. But we'll have to scrounge the shop and maybe call in some favors with the road race guys for the rears.

As is, 325F 350R, the car cornered pretty flat (several people commented on that) and felt very neutral, maybe slight understeer. I have still not quite mastered the "S+" system. The manual implies that you should only have to press it once, but I think you actually have to press it each time you're on the accelerator. (For those that don't know, the S+ button is able to activated when battery charge is greater than 4 bars, and vehicle speed is over 19mph, and forces the car to use the maximum electric assist).

At speed:

The car charged very quickly in grid. All I had to do was put in the neutral and hold engine speed at over 3500 RPM for ~5 seconds, then maintain over 3000 RPM while it charges. It took about 2.5 minutes to go from one or two bars to five... but then it stopped. It appears that it isn't possible to charge to more than 5 of 8 bars in grid. We'll definitely be investigating whether this can be defeated or not. Though, it was nice to find out that we could charge the battery quickly enough to support a co-driver. Also, since this course was only around 40-45 seconds (depending on class), we didn't have any trouble running out of battery, but it could be an issue on longer national levels courses. I'm really really hopeful that we'll find a way to allow charging fully in grid.

Also on deck between now and the next event (5 May) is a full exhaust, header (cat-delete), high-flow catalytic converter and a muffler. Hopefully the numbers and graphics will come it by then as well. Lastly, I really feel there should be some more camber from those camber bolts (only ~ -0.8º). We'll investigate that and start slotting stuff to get the camber the car definitely needs.

Also, the CR-Z is easily convertible from mph to km/h with a little button on the dash. Yeah, I totally ran it in km/h. Told everyone I hit "90". AND they use metric in Japan so... JDM, yo.

That's all I have to this week. Will post more as parts arrive.

So the S+ button only gives you electric boost from the time you press it under WOT until you lift off the gas? If it engages when you hold it, you could put a button under the gas pedal wired in parallel with the S+ button, with a switch. Switch it on and you automatically get electric boost when you floor the gas.

Or if that would waste it too fast, wire it up to the horn button with a switch. Flip it and it activates the S+ instead of the horn.

GameboyRMH wrote: So the S+ button only gives you electric boost from the time you press it under WOT until you lift off the gas? If it engages when you hold it, you could put a button under the gas pedal wired in parallel with the S+ button, with a switch. Switch it on and you automatically get electric boost when you floor the gas. Or if that would waste it too fast, wire it up to the horn button with a switch. Flip it and it activates the S+ instead of the horn.

Interesting idea about making a new switch. I'll have to consult the rulebook on that idea.

The S+ button doesn't give an electric boost, per se, it merely forces the full electric output until you let off the throttle (testing today confirmed that it needs to be pressed again each time to let off the throttle). In my fooling around a little today, the affect isn't that pronounced. When we get the dyno up and running, I definitely want to compare Eco, Normal and Sport modes, as well as Sport vs. Sport with S+.

I don't know specifically about the CRZ, but Honda's older IMA stuff would do a "recal" on the high voltage battery after you removed 12V power from the ECM for a while (disconnect the 12V battery). After starting it, you'd do the 3000 rpm thing and it would force a charge into the battery until it was at maximum voltage. It did this to calibrate and confirm all systems were working properly. You can try that method and also try the method you already did with normal driving conditions to see if it limits the amount of charge (number of bars) you can pump in based on temperature or current in recent use.

I'm guessing you have access to the full service manuals, including battery service manuals. You ought to scour those, a lot of really useful tech information can be gleaned from them if you look closely.

Bryce

I'm curious to see how ambient temperature will affect the car's performance. This is really interesting. Keep us posted.

Well, it was 41ºF for our first event yesterday. Due to some timing issues results haven't been posted yet, but I know we were within a second of the only other car in class, a pretty well prepared and well driven RSX Type-S.

I didn't notice anything wonky in the cold... but I don't really have anything to compare it against. Hopefully the next event on May 5th will be warmer. We should have the BFGs ready to roll (hehe, ready to roll) by then.

Tonight, we swapped out the front springs, 325lb up to 500lb. I haven't calculated the motion ratio yet, but it felt really good. There were some concerns that we might get it too stiff, but I don't think we've gotten there yet.

I'm running 420lb springs on the front of my 'rolla and it weighs a good bit less, for this car I'd say 500lb would be a good starting point before considering something even harder. People put 500lb springs on CRXs for autocross.

LainfordExpress wrote: Also on deck between now and the next event (5 May) is a full exhaust, header (cat-delete), high-flow catalytic converter and a muffler.

So y'all are leaving STF? Such a shame, I was hoping to put a hurtin' on y'all in the SeX!

Bobzilla wrote:

LainfordExpress wrote: Also on deck between now and the next event (5 May) is a full exhaust, header (cat-delete), high-flow catalytic converter and a muffler.

So y'all are leaving STF? Such a shame, I was hoping to put a hurtin' on y'all in the SeX!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of that is STF legal, right? We have no intention of leaving STF.

You can't remove a cat in STF. In fact, you can't remove a cat in any ST class. You can replace with stock style in the original location, but us mani-cat peeps can't touch them.

National Solo Rules 2013 Edition

14.10E. Catalytic converters: Any catalytic converters are allowed, but must attach within 6" of the original unit. Multiple catalytic converters may be replaced by a single unit. The inlet of the single replacement converter may be located no further downstream than 6" (152.4mm) along the piping flow path from the original exit of the final OE converter.

So, I can delete the cat from the header and replace the converter in the exhaust as long as the inlet of the replacement cat is no more than 6" downstream of the original exist of the existing final cat.

So, two cats down to one. STF legal, right?

that's new. That would have been hella-nice long ago when I raced a mani-cat car.

figures, current car doesn't have a mani-cat, and all of the aftermarket headers suck. The last 2 that were tested netted a LOSS of about 4-6hp and 3-5tq.

Episode V - Last Minute Prep for Event #2

So it has been a whirlwind two weeks... so whirlwindy that I haven't had time to post or take any pictures (I'll try to update this post with some pics in the future).

I assembled a pair of our Bogart 3-Piece wheels (the 15x7.5" ones). Turns out I'm dumb and forgot to include the space when calculating if the offset would be OK. Result: plenty of shock clearance, and the tire sticks out from the fender about 1.5". This may be an issue, but with the 500 lb springs swapped in, I think we'll be alright.

Found a pair of magic Toyos for sale on another board, 195/50R15. Y'know, the ones made of unicorn horns and baby seal blood. I also got a set of 15x7" wheels from TireRack. So a pair of 225/45R15 BFG Rivals and 195 Toyos are mounted on these. I'll run this set this weekend because 1) The high is only 75ºF which should be about perfect for those Toyos on the rear, and 2) It'll give me a chance to observe if the car is rolling over enough to be an issue with the 15x7.5" wheels.

Also, because Honda, I removed the muffler. Got rid of some weight and maybe adds a couple horsepower (maybe... probably not). But at least I can tell when the engine is running now.

On the horizon, we have the vinyl graphics in the shop so they'll be applied in the next week or so, and I ordered the Type One Racing header and test pipe from A&J Racing. When those arrive, I can start making some decision on the exhaust system and hopefully have that done by the third event. I also need to find a suitable intake or I'll make one myself. Undecided on that.

Anyway, tomorrow or Monday I'll update this post with some pictures and put up a new one with information from our third event!

Looked and performed great yesterday at the airport! Car is still REALLY quiet.

beans wrote: Looked and performed great yesterday at the airport! Car is still REALLY quiet.

Ha! You're finding me everywhere I go!

It's funny because we took the muffler off before yesterday's event.

And, yes it is still very quiet, but at least now you can tell when it is running. Before, you'd start it... and wonder. Maybe self-defense so you won't notice the autostop.

Regarding the autostop... it confused our 1st-time-ever autocrosser this weekend. She kept thinking she'd stalled the darn thing. Pretty good first event for her, in my opinion, and a good car to learn in, frankly. Not too easy to spin, underpowered, heavy, front-wheel drive cars.

Haha, I'm on a ton of forums. I try to stick to 6-7 at most, otherwise it because too much of a hassle at 8am when I'm at work wasting time.

Really looking forward to seeing how this car develops.

Not just ambient temp, but with heavy battery load and multiple drivers, will battery heat soak be an issue? I don't fancy spraying down a battery pack with a garden sprayer like people do with intercoolers

Well, I've been neglecting this due to other concerns (namely work workload, HART workload, life workload, etc).

Here's picture as the car more or less looks today:

Lookie here! CR-Z holds everything you need for a day at the track (or parking lot). Including four tires!

In there are all the tools we needed to change tires, two BFG Rivals (225/50R15) and two Toyo R1R (195/50R15) mounted on Motegi something-or-others (15x7), a floor jack, water sprayer, two duffel bags, a cooler, and two Honda employees. Success.

We just competed at the 2013 Peru Match Tour. Some other STF competitors were talking smack about our little electric green-mobile, so we were hoping to shut them up.

Then reality happened. Car is still underprepared at the moment... definitely need to improve the front camber significantly before the next event. We're still at less than a degree.

Before the event we got the T1R header installed, but didn't have time to make the rest of our legal exhaust. Instead we just hacked apart the OE one until we had something smaller and lighter than before. We had to keep the OE midpipe too, so we'd still have a cat to keep legal.

Here's my start on the exhaust.

This was cut from an old OE 06 Civic Si exhaust, plenty big for our pea-shooter. I'll have to order a cat to weld in, right up by the flange, and then it'll bolt right up to our header. Then we'll check sound and find out if a muffler is necessary. We'll definitely add a turndown though.

Swapping the header required dropping the subframe. There was tons of room to move the header around, but no hole big enough to get it out.

Results weren't great. I finished 4th on the first day... I actually had been in 2nd or 3rd all day (though well back from 1st and 2nd through the first two runs... they were carrying cones though), but by less than a tenth. Then my first run, I dropped about 0.5 seconds and I thought, Ha! I've done it! My first national trophy! Then the guy behind me on course beat me by 0.065s. Them's autocross. We did not qualify in the 32 for the Shootout.

Class Results:

The next day wasn't much better... I was unable to match my time from the day before, and my co-driver was faster than I'd been. We didn't make it out of the Last Chance Qualifier either.

The car also served double duty as hilariously slow EP car. The two EP cars the team took to Peru suffered a never ending series of failures, forcing one to finally retire completely. That driver finished the event in the lowly STF CR-Z. Mock it all you want... fancy EP car did two runs, little STF CR-Z made 16. Sixteen slowish runs beats two fast and broken every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Here's the car hanging out with some of the others... you can see the blue STR S2000, the red RTR/BS S2000, and way up in the sky the EP Civic Si that likes to not work.

I really like what you're doing with this. I've been interested in a CR-Z since they came out(we have a Fit now and love it). I hope you guys persist and find some success!

That EP Civic was out at the last Toledo Airport autocross, wasn't it?

You guys coming back up this weekend for the event at Toledo Chrysler? I signed up already, but I don't think I'm gonna make it.

I have to ask what the deal was Sunday between runs? You guys were running it at a really fast idle, were you recharging the batteries?

Car looked good. I was glad to have stayed as close to you as I did in my stock car on Pixie dust tires. Hopefully the next time we meet we'll both be a little more prepared to put the mini's in their place.

beans wrote: That EP Civic was out at the last Toledo Airport autocross, wasn't it? You guys coming back up this weekend for the event at Toledo Chrysler? I signed up already, but I don't think I'm gonna make it.

Yeah, EP Civic was there last time. We should have something there. I think the current plan is RTR S2000 and STF CR-Z, but maybe CR-Z won't make it.

Bobzilla wrote: I have to ask what the deal was Sunday between runs? You guys were running it at a really fast idle, were you recharging the batteries? Car looked good. I was glad to have stayed as close to you as I did in my stock car on Pixie dust tires. Hopefully the next time we meet we'll both be a little more prepared to put the mini's in their place.

Both days between runs we were charging. Holding engine speed over 3000 will charge the battery up to 5 of 8 bars. The joy of creating... or something... Honda Philosophy.

LainfordExpress wrote:

beans wrote: That EP Civic was out at the last Toledo Airport autocross, wasn't it? You guys coming back up this weekend for the event at Toledo Chrysler? I signed up already, but I don't think I'm gonna make it.

Yeah, EP Civic was there last time. We should have something there. I think the current plan is RTR S2000 and STF CR-Z, but maybe CR-Z won't make it.

That EP civic looked pretty gnarly last time. I may make it out to watch some runs, but that'll be about it. Kinda depressed about it, really wanted to try the car out on with the rear bar installed.