914 Widebody - k24 swap

Sold the Kz400 on Sunday so I just got a good cash injection for engine donor. I did a ton more garage clean up and organization to prep for future tomfoolery. Unfortunately next weekend is going to be pretty busy so maybe at best I'll get the dry ice work done. I may have lined out a gas bottle for the MIG. Making moves!

Cool bike!  Whats the plan for an engine source?  JDM importer or something else?

In reply to Lof8 - Andy :

When I did the k swap on my FRS I bought a running/driving TSX so I could confirm it was a decent engine. It wasn't pretty and was mostly a parts car but had a clean title. I think after selling off the chassis I only had about $800 in it. I'm considering that option again. One of the main benefits is it has everything I need that ends up nickel and diming the project. There happens to be an k24a2 block with the head off for $300 but it's 3 hours away. No intake and exhaust. No accessories. I figure by the time I put it all back together it would be easier to start with something that's ready to go. Otherwise I'd be tempted to do higher compression pistons, cams, etc. and it snowballs. I've got so much work to do on the chassis it seems silly to start down that road. I'm not against using a JDM importer and like the idea of a lower mile engine to start with.

Got myself a bottle last night for the MIG. Tonight I'm swinging by a buddy's storage to pick up my welder cart that's holding a cb350 engine on it. That should round out all the items needed to start my sheet metal work.

Finally got some work done on the 914. I had an early day out at work so I grabbed about 11 pounds of dry ice with one mission. It took a bit of learning to figure out the best method for removal but after a while it got easier. I'm happy to report no real surprises. The patch at the firewall and floor pan passenger side as well as the seat brace rail on the driver side needs attention.

Then I hooked up the welding bottle and wanted to run a few test beads. Glad I did that because I ran into two issues. My welding helmet batteries are dead and the solenoid for my welder apparently isn't working. So no gas. Still trying to track down a cheap solution to replace that doesn't require a handful of adapters or that I fear will just catch fire. I don't know why it took a crap on me in the first place. No obstructions in the filters and the welder is definitely sending 120v to it when triggered. But no click at all when powered.

I bought a MIG welder that worked great until the wire feed stopped working, repair wasn't practical.  Ended up looking on amazon, found a s7 welder that has worked great, and surprised at how cheap it was.  It works with 120 or 220 power.  The ground cable is a little short and light duty, but the welder works and was really cheap.  For auto type stuff, don't really need a expensive or heavy duty welder, everything is light duty stuff on fairly thin material.

You want a good self darkening helmet, if it's not working perfectly, get a new one they are not that expensive, you don't want to hurt your eyes, you will want to use them later!

TED

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

I think this one is good to go with a new solenoid. I ordered up one that I think should work with a little effort and was only around $20 shipped. If this fails I'm probably going to get a cheaper tig machine I've been eyeballing and convert my Lincoln back to flux core for odd jobs.

My old helmet was self darkening but I haven't had to use it much the past few years. Batteries died on it and they are cheap enough to just get a new one VS try and solder new ones back in.

Edit: Last night I was reading through the MIG conversion kit and it appears I have one for a 220 welder. The main difference is the solenoid voltage. I don't know if that's the reason it won't work since I'm not sending 208v to it? Is that a thing? The new one I ordered is for 110/120v so it should match up properly.

In reply to captainawesome :

The Eastwood 200 ac/dc TIG welder has been fine for what I welded so far.

In reply to TurboFource :

I was looking at the ArcCaptain Tig200 which is about $200 without a footpedal or $260 with one. I see some great reviews and based off of what I would use it for should do what I need. As much as I love the idea of welding aluminum, I suck at it. I'm not patient enough with it and so a simple sheet metal TIG would do the trick for me.

   The biggest rust problem on the 914, is caused by the heater....   The heat tubes are inside the frame boxes that run under the doors, after the heat is run, it will cool and condensation will form inside the frame box, it will then rust from the inside.   Repair parts are available for all the common rust areas, but some of it can be a lot of work, any major repair, need to ensure the repair and weld heat won't warp or deform the car.   

   Check the bottom of the frame boxes, also the fit of the door at the back, without a roof, the car is somewhat weak or can become weak with some rust.

    I had one of these, mine was rusty, I really should not have rebuilt that car, but learned a few things for future projects.

I see you mentioned it in a post, but yes, the reason the solenoid isn't working is because you're only sending 120 VAC to it.  It's a 208 VAC solenoid.  Just not enough voltage to make it work.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

So far so good on those areas. No door sag or pinching has been found. I'm sure I'll reveal some warts soon but so far I'm really happy with what's being exposed.

In reply to BA5 :

Thanks for confirming that. I was hoping that my assumption was correct. It looks brand new still, so it seemed crazy that it wouldn't work.

I found a somewhat local engine donor over the weekend. Sunday I got myself an 04 TSX k24a2 that was reported to be around 157k miles. After opening it up a bit I believe they left off 100k miles. It all looks functional internally, turns over, but I'm certain the timing chain is pretty stretched. There are new Duralast coil packs on it as well as new plugs. No leaking in the valve cover area or where the spark plug boots seal. I think whoever had it last was trouble shooting an ignition problem which is probably related to the timing chain. I can't see contact being made between the valves and pistons yet but will double check this week. If it doesn't have bent valves it wasn't a bad deal. Otherwise that would suck. I spent a while powerwashing it as much as possible without getting too crazy.

My previous K swap donor looked pretty similar and with some more elbow grease it should shine up nicely.

After a bit of spray time.

It was a good weekend for 914 stuff.

Saturday morning I made a run to the local U Pull It for a few parts. Originally I was looking for a cable throttle body from a k24a4 from the Accord, but then I saw they got an 06 TSX in. My engine is an 04, and in 06-08 they had a more aggressive intake cam profile. I planned to just buy a used one when a good deal popped up but hard to beat $33 for each cam. It was in a bad front end shunt, the intake was smashed and busted up pretty good. I did not feel bad cracking open the top end. Should have taken a pic, sadly it was cleaner internally than my own. I was able to free both cams right before a fellow auto enthusiast arrived in dismay. I got there just in time. I figure while I'm changing out the cam chain and adjuster swapping in a 5 hp increase would be worth it for $33 extra. No need to get the exhaust cam but since it looked cleaner than my own I grabbed it as well.

I also snagged the Accord throttle body with associated cable bracket and a spare cam sensor that is vertical typically used on the intake side. The exhaust side pokes out and for packaging purposes the intake may be a better fit for my needs. They are interchangable so figured I'd grab it while still available.

I had to swap out to shorter studs on the intake manifold for the Accord throttle body. The ones that are removed from the rear coolant housing were a perfect length, so it was fate.

Here's the cam sensor difference. The 90 degree one is better for clearance, so that's what's being swapped out.

I spent a few minutes cleaning up around the garage and called it a day.

Sunday morning I wanted to focus on getting the front suspension pulled from my car in hopes to compare to the yellow parts car. Getting the ball joints to release from the control arms was far more effort than expected but I finally got it free.

After looking at it a bit on the ground it was obviously tweaked. Or at least it looked like it. So I had the wife help me push the yellow car into the second bay and started the removal process on it. Luckily I managed to free it in considerably less time and got a chance to compare the two.

Blue car that's tweaked a bit on top and the yellow parts car on bottom.

I was excited to bolt the yellow one up and see if there's a chance in hell the mounts will line up. It didn't fall into place, but with a little effort I managed to get all bolts in place.

Here's a pic of the old driver side control arm that shows how much the bushing was pulling away from the collar.

With the new one mounted up there's still a small gap but not near the distance as before. I think I can do a little more tweaking with the driver side subframe mount that will take up the gap as well as make it easier to bolt up without the need of any force.

The good news out of all of this though? I think I can just do some sheetmetal patching to the front end and not have to do a full front floorpan replacement. Technically the yellow car has everything I need to do the job but it would take a E36 M3 ton of effort and right now I think getting the car driving sounds like more fun. Don't get it right, just get it running....

Anyway, the ball joints between early and later models are different so I ordered the cheapest ones I could find through Rockauto. I don't trust the original ones to swap over and the boots are destroyed anyway so Thursday I'll hopefully have both vehicles back on the ground. In the meantime I can start pulling the axles and maybe mess with swapping the window regulator stuff on the driver side door.

  I've been waffling on what I planned to do for tuning/ECU since the inception of the project. I like the simplicity of the Hondata and cost but recently Humble Performance and a few other tuning shops have released a kit that utilizes a Haltech Elite 750. It's a plug N Play jumper harness that joins an RSX k20 engine harness to the Haltech 750. Included with purchase is a base map ready to go. I stick with cable throttle but get the ability to do self learning fuel as well as closed loop o2 control. I'm already familiar with the Haltech software, so that's a huge bonus. The PNP 750 kit from Humble with a 5% coupon was $1,392.50 which wasn't a small amount of money, but I feel was worth the investment. Unfortunately I still need to either wire in a wideband controller OR get the Haltech WB1 that plugs into a CAN port. The WB1 makes the most sense as I'm limited on inputs available but it's pricey at ~$375 so it can wait a bit while that decision is made.

I also purchased a cheap k20 "tucked" engine harness for $40 which will probably require double checking pinouts and ensuring pins are locked in place but this should get me good for mockup purposes. I'm still deciding if I want the ECU in the cabin by the driver seat or in the rear trunk. I think in cabin would be preferred for tuning as well as shorter runs for CAN connections needed with the Haltech dash.

The only thing I will be lacking is a "universal conversion harness" that marries both the Haltech and the engine harness giving me data to send to a dash system as well as other accessories. These harness have prewired o2 connections/relay that would have been used by a Hondata, but become useless with the Haltech. They also have built in fuel and cooling fan relays. If I decide to go with the Haltech dash I won't need some of that wiring since it's CAN based data. So I may end up buying the cheapest harness I can find and removing what I don't need from it. I have all of the pinout data from various sources so it should be easy to modify to suit my needs.

Nice!

I recently realized that a local tuner to me, who has done two great tunes on our old Champcar miata, is a Haltech (among other systems) guru .  So, once I get mine buttoned up, I'll have a source to get the car dialed and running/tuned well.   

In reply to Lof8 - Andy :

It's a great platform. I think when you get it going you will be blown away by how user friendly it is.

Yesterday I had a pair of rebuilt front calipers in my cart with Rockauto and then one of them disappeared. It was a great deal but now I don't want to just order one so I'm on the hunt for rebuild kits. Last night I decided to pull the rear for inspection to see what parts I actually have as there are quite a few possibilities.

The fronts are "A" calipers with 3.5" spacing. These are fairly common with rebuild kits costing roughly $34 per caliper. Before I order just the seals I want to make sure the pistons aren't trash so tonight I plan to pop them out for inspection.

For the rear I have a couple different possibilities as to what they are. I need to measure the piston size to confirm which though. Stock 914 rears are 33mm piston and 914-6 are 38mm. With the front calipers being "A" sized it would be preferable to have the 38mm rears. Another thing of note is mine have spacers to allow fitment of rear vented rotors which were typically used on the 914/6 GT cars. I don't know if that's what these are yet as you can technically just bolt spacers up with the proper hardware. If they are in fact GT calipers that's a big score. Stock 914/6 cars were solid rear rotors with no spacer but also 38mm. As for rotors it looks like both front and rear are in good shape with very light surface rust.

   One thing to watch for on old used calipers, corrosion in a critical area.   The piston seal fits into a groove in the caliper body.  So the seal is held back from the hydraulic pressure by a ring of material, this can rust and become weak, then with hydraulic pressure that ring of material can break and the seal then pops out.  Water can collect at the bottom of the seal groove.

     While adding a bigger engine, might consider some new calipers, maybe willwood, then you would have a good selection of pad material types.

    A common update is BMW 320 calipers, I installed those, then pushed hard on the pedal, and the caliper failed, did this to 2 rebuilt BMW calipers bought at a local parts store.  The BMW brake will bolt right on.

    When done, push on the brake pedal harder than you would while driving, and hold it there to ensure no leaks or weak spots.

In reply to TED_fiestaHP :

Unfortunately those BMW calipers will not fit my current front struts as they do not have the "M" caliper 3" spacing. I have the 3.5" "A" calipers. There are however adapters to fit Boxster front calipers, but I haven't looked into the rears yet. Preferably I'd just rebuild what I have since it's all just seals that probably need replaced, but this could be a future upgrade for serviceability and parts availability.

This evening I plan to measure piston size, and at that time can confirm if the seal lip is still in good shape or not. Unless someone has already beat up the pistons trying to remove them I think the seal lip will be a non issue.

Not a lot of visual work done this week so far but stuff is happening.

First the fuel rail has arrived. I would have used the stock one but it's facing the wrong direction and the $30 ebay one should do the trick. I'll be using 3/8" quick connects at the rail, the fuel regulator and around the fuel pump/filter area when possible for packaging as well as serviceability.

The Haltech Elite 750 and jumper harness have arrived. I've spent hours combing through the base map functions Humble pre-set and making sure it will work with my planned setup. The only thing I think I need to adjust is the VSS wiring since the Honda system is Hall Effect and the Porsche part I plan to use is Reluctor based. I also will probably add in a few outputs at some point. I also spent time checking the terminal placement with the jumper harness and mapping it all out. It should come in handy later when I need to do any adjustments or additions.

The ebay $40 engine harness has also arrived. For $40 I'm frickin impressed. There is known documentation about some mis-pinned wires they typically ship with. So I spent some time confirming my harness was in fact pinned incorrectly at the 1 coil pack ignition wire. I also needed to re-pin the crank sensor connector since I'll be using the k24 sensor. What blows my mind is how the routing is set up. The tail end of it is WAY longer than necessary if used in a RWD configuration. If I send the harness back under the coil pack cover to the firewall it's just about perfect. I think.

RWD configuration

Tucked and sent back to the firewall.

You can also see I have added some plastic beauty engine covers. The factory intake is hideous but I think the Acura silver engine cover isn't much of an improvement. I may be the odd one out but I think the Accord black plastic covers look better, and so yesterday I stopped by the junkyard to snatch up a set. A lot of the covers available didn't have the VTEC sticker, but I figure since this will be visible from the mesh engine cover it should proudly boast displacement as well as 3 lobe cam superiority.

Of course since the fuel rail is facing a different direction I needed to trim a bit off for the new one to work.

I also scored a used 50 degree RBC timing gear for $40 shipped. It should net a few ponies.

Lots of gaskets, seals etc. are on the way to wrap up the engine assembly. It should be nice, pretty, and ready to fire when the time comes. Probably not something I need to focus on, but it's rewarding work and once it's done I'll be able to focus on the next phases instead of stretched across 12 different things.

Ball joints have been replaced with the new Suspensia branded ones. I had to file the notch on the new ones to seat properly but finally got them in place. Removing the ball joint nut took some heat, a sledge, and a chisel. The heat probably made the most difference. The ball joints from the yellow car which were still in decent shape have been swapped to the blue car rack so I can get the yellow car back on it's wheels. I'll finish that up this afternoon as well as clean up and start prep for timing chain/cam replacement.

Not much progress pic wise but I have been cleaning the engine the past couple evenings. Last night I replaced the water pump housing o-ring, slapped on new sealant, replaced water pump o-ring, timing cover seal, and general cleaning of all gasket surfaces. Vtec solenoid cleaned and gasket has been replaced. Things are starting to look more presentable and still deciding on the valve cover color. I kinda like the idea of doing the same hammered yellow/gold I used for the FRS but with the black covers the bland silver kinda looks good too.

Current status:

This is the gold I used for the FRS K swap. I also think a dark magnesium silver would be neat. More subtle maybe?

I got a big missing piece of the swap puzzle in today. I've been quiet about it just in case the deal fell through but now that it's here I can show off my goodies.

I paid $200 for a Kennedy Boxster 5 speed adapter kit including flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate. On top of that a Numeric shifter setup for an additional $200. Total shipped for everything was $500! Because the deal was so great it allowed me the opportunity to afford the Haltech stuff. Gotta track down hardware and remove a broke off allen key on the flywheel adapter thing. It needs to be removed to bolt the back of the ring gear to the crank, then bolted back on for the clutch to bolt on and etc. etc. The guy who sold it to me switched to a transverse setup so it was no longer needed. I think it's sat around for a couple years waiting for me to take ownership!

Not burnt or roached like the other one I have.

It was hard to capture the broken allen key. I'll probably spend some time welding a nut to it and see if I can get it to release.

nice score!!!