Along came a Spyder: Diving into SCCA E/Street

Now, at this point, if one wanted to delete the precats, my suggestion would be to put on a dust mask, because I'm sure the dust would be really bad, and then grab a hammer and punch, and just smash through the stuff and break it all up so that it can be shaken out through the collector. You would also want to be really thorough in the process, and make sure you got absolutely everything out. Of course, this is all hypothetical, I did not do this, because that would be tampering with a federal emissions device, and Nick Dixon is not a crook. 

Then you drop it back down in (Don't forget a new manifold gasket, Mahle PN MS19202) and bolt everything back up. Might want to do yourself a favor and put anti-seize on the various fasteners in case you have to remove it in the future.

In reply to NickD :

There is a fundamental correctness about the transverse mid engine layout. I have a lot of seat time in everything, and even an inline mid engine is a little bit less correct. Enjoy this car, I will follow along loosely, but have little to add if you are staying within Estock. 

Now, I said the X-Brace didn't need to come out to do the converter, but then it's out in the last photo. Well, that's because I also wanted to do sparkplugs. If the tires were 18 years old, and the belt was 21 years old, my thinking was that the sparkplugs were likely original as well. And to change those, you also have to remove the X-Brace.

The little cover comes off the coil pack by removing the two 10mm acorn nuts at the top and pulling out the two plastic retainers at the bottom

You then have to remove a 10mm nut and a 10mm bolt that hold the coil pack harness down (it has a channel the covers the edge of the coil packs and prevents their removal) and then four 10mm nuts for the coil packs. Then remove the sparkplugs with a 14mm or 9/16" sparkplug socket. If any of the coil packs come out with oil on the boot, time for a valve cover gasket too. Fortunately my valve cover gasket did not appear to be leaking. The spark plugs did appear to be original, a set of quite old Denso plugs. The gap spec is 0.044", and they measured 0.050", so they were worn but not too bad (Not like the set of plugs in my father's Jeep with 209k miles on it, which had 0.120" gaps)

While I was under there, I also changed the engine oil (One Purolator PN14476 oil filter and 3.9 quarts of Castrol GTX 5W-30) and changed the transmission fluid. 

The drain plug is a 24mm head on the bottom of the case, facing towards the driver's side rear wheel, while the fill plug is a 24mm head on the front of the transmission halfway up. Some people prefer to fill through the speedometer drive hole topside, since you stick a funnel in it and pur it in, rather than having to pump it in from below. Of course, I was on a lift, with a BG Driveline machine at my tool, which made it easier to use the fill plug. Also, with the fill plug, you just add fluid till it runs out the fill hole. With the speedometer hole method, you have to measure out the 2.2qts of GL-4 75W-90 fluid.

I changed the fluid because, while test driving it, I noticed a faint clattery noise from behind me while accelerating or decelerating. Steady speed on flat ground, or idling in neutral, or with the clutch in, and the sound went away. Looked under it and there was no fluid leak, so that made me feel better, in that the transmission likely hadn't been run dry. My first thought was, since it had the original 21 year old accessory belt and 15 year old tires, maybe a fluid change would help it. It had the correct amount of fluid, and while there was some metal flake in it, it wasn't like silver paint. I figured that with likely 21 years and 98k miles on it, it looked acceptable.

With all that done, I put the belly pans back on, reinstalled the X-brace, and poured in engine oil, which is a real treat since the engine is nearly up under the rear deck, use a long transmission funnel to fill it. It's slow but less chance of spillage. Unless you're me and then you spill a bunch on the exhaust somehow and have to pressure wash the exhaust because it smokes like a tire fire. I had hoped to check the alignment as well, but a coworker came down and tied up the alignment rack, so that will have to wait for another day. I also discovered that the left rear axle was throwing grease at the outer boot, not from trauma but probably just dry-rot, so that will require attention.

Why use Miata wheels up front and Koenig heliums in the rear?

thatsnowinnebago said:

Why use Miata wheels up front and Koenig heliums in the rear?

SCCA Street requires stock width wheels, plus or minus an inch in diameter. There's not a ton of lightweight wheel options in 15x6 or 15x6.5. For the 15x6s, unless you want to hunt down a set of rare-as-hen's-teeth 949Racing 6ULs (I think they made one run of those) or shell out crazy money for SSRs, the NB1 hollow-spokes are as light as it gets. The 15x6.5s in the rear are a really weird size and Konig Heliums are about it, in terms of a quality lightweight wheel. I think they're 4lbs lighter per wheel versus the stock MR2 wheels.

On the first page, you can actually see that combo on my friend Mark's car

With that all done, I went home, and had stuff going on that day, so I really didn't get to drive it. But Sunday was a nice cool day, so I hopped in the Spyder and charted a course over some backroads and went out for a nice drive.

The car is an absolute delight to zing along some curvy backroads. Its got enough power to have fun, but not so much to really get you into trouble. The stock suspension is certainly more compliant over bumps than the 800lb/in Xidas in my Miata, and they feel really light and playful. The power steering on these is an interesting system (it has an electric motor driving a hydraulic pump mounted up in the front) and has terrific feel to it. Also, while a lot is written about Miata shifters, I think the shifter on these is just as good, if not better.

Also, having had experience with the original Conti ECS tires, which was an absolutely magical tire, the ECS 02 continues the trend. They're quiet and smooth on the road, but have phenomenal grip, even with "just" a 340 treadwear rating. I wasn't pushing it too hard on public roads, I'm not an idiot, but I gave them a pretty decent test and they never squawked or protested or anything, they just stuck. I'm curious if they're as magical in the rain as the original ECS, because those were absolutely mental in the rain. For right now, the plan is to finish out the season in the XSB Miata, since the MR2 Spyder lacks an upgraded sway bar or Super 200TW tires or good struts, but if we get rain, I'll likely bring it instead, since the Miata is on well-worn Nankang CR-Ss, which are a nightmare in the rain.

I've always loved these cars and I briefly considered buying one about a decade ago. I don't see them on the road very often. 

Awesome thread that delivers.  Now I want one.  

In reply to Manual_Trans :

They didn't sell a ton of them. In 2000, the Mr2 Spyder sold 7.233 cars, while the Miata sold 18.299 cars. In fact, 2000 Miata sales were two thirds of total MR2 Spyder production from 2000 to 2005 (24,527). Add to that the amount that were retired from oil-burning engines and wrecks by overly-enthusiastic drivers on wet roads, and I'm sure the number is really dwindling.

People who complain about Miata prices have obviously not shopped MR2 Spyders, because that market is even more insane. Most of them you find for sale are $7,500-$10,000 and usually need an engine and/or a top. That was why, when I was looking at this one, my friend Lawrence said "If you buy it, and decide you don't want it, you can literally turn around and make your money back. Or do a little maintenance and a top and it's a $10-12k car next year." I jumped at this one, because I didn't want to get priced out of the market.

I've always found it funny/irritating how hot MR2 Spyder prices are because, for the most part, a lot of car people, and even MR2 people, slam-dunk on them pretty hard. They're ugly, they're slow, they're impractical, you couldn't get them with a turbocharger or supercharger like earlier MR2s, Toyota should have put the 180hp 2ZZ in them from the factory, etc. Which you would think all those complaints would translate to low prices. Nope.

Scotty Con Queso said:

Awesome thread that delivers.  Now I want one.  

If you haven't driven one, I recommend it. They get under your skin.

The pre-facelift (2000-2002) cars look better in my opinion and are lighter, but have the precats more prone to self-destructing, plus there's less chassis bracing, the narrower rear wheels, and no LSD option.

Post-facelift (2003-2005) look fussier to me, although I do like the side vents better, but have supposedly-improved precats, more chassis bracing, an improved top design (all replacement tops are the 2003+ design from what I understand), 15x7 rear wheels, and there is an option for an LSD (although some say to avoid the LSD because they feel it makes it prone to understeering). Post-facelift also added the weird SMT transmission, which was the 5-speed manual but with a hydraulic actuator on the clutch and shifter that you controlled with buttons on the shifter or the steering wheel. Neat idea, but they were significantly slower than the regular 5-speed and had some reliability gremlins. You can yank the SMT stuff off, add shifter cables, and a shifter and convert it to a conventional 5-speed.

All the cars were also optioned out pretty much the same: power steering, ABS, AC, power windows, radio. No cruise control, except on the SMT cars, and 2002 later had a remote door lock fob option, as well as the LSD option on the post-facelift cars. Other than that, it was just paint colors.

In reply to NickD :

Ah, it's to abide by SCCA rules. Makes sense now, thanks. 

So, a couple posts back I mentioned an "unexpected expense", and if you read my one post over in the main forum, you know what that was about. 

While test driving it, I noticed a faint clattery noise from behind me while accelerating or decelerating. Idling in neutral or with the clutch in, or coasting in neutral or with the clutch in, and the sound goes away. My first thought was, since it had the original 21 year old accessory belt and 15 year old tires, was that it likely had the original fluid and that maybe a fluid change would help it. Changed the fluid on it on Saturday and the noise is still there. It had the correct amount of fluid, and while there was some metal flake in it, it wasn't like silver paint. I figured that with likely 21 years and 98k miles on it, it looked acceptable.

The car shifts fine, doesn't vibrate, and once you get up to 55mph+ you can't hear it over the wind noise with just the windows down. The fact that the noise goes away when I push the clutch in makes me rule out pilot bearing and throwout bearing. The fact that it doesn't make the noise in neutral with the clutch engaged makes me think it is on the input shaft of things. 

I'm leaning towards output shaft bearing, especially since doing some reading on SpyderChat it sounds like the C56 transmission was somewhat prone to those failing. Guys say they've had them replaced at less than 100k miles for what is described as a similar noise.

So, for right now I'm just driving it around locally and it will probably go into winter storage in middle- to late-October.

Now, as for my options, well there are used C56 transmissions, but most of them seem to be in the $1000-$1200 range and then you're running the risk of it possibly having the same issue. But Monkey Wrench Racing sells a rebuilt transmissio (synchros, bearings, seals, cleaned case, etc) for $1599, which seems like a deal. They do offer a TRD helical LSD option for $999, but since the 2000-2002 Spyders did not come with an LSD, I can't check that option and remain in E/Street. They also offer a $169 option to replace the 0.815:1 Fifth gear with a 0.725:1 Fifth gear, and that presents a moral quandary. I'd like to ask your consensus.

Technically, under SCCA Street rules, that different Fifth gear gearset would not be legal. But, you shouldn't be using Fifth gear on an autocross course and even if you were, it's not really a performance advantage. I just think that would be nice for making the drives to and from events, or if I get squirrely and want to drive down to the Tail of the Dragon or something. So, if you were an E/Street competitor and found out I had a different Fifth gear in my transmission, would you protest? Or even care? Or should I just shut my mouth and not say anything to anyone since it won't even matter?

In reply to NickD :

How are they gonna know unless you give them a ride home after the event?

In reply to gixxeropa :

Kind of my thought. It's technically illegal, but not in a way that matters or provides any advantage (kind of like removing the precats, but even more innocuous)

Ordered a LR axle from RockAuto today to the tune of $48. The exact same brand and part number axle was $85 through local parts stores, and $69 through Summit. It's rare I do any business with parts stores anymore when they want nearly twice the price for the same part, and typically don't have it in stock and have a longer wait time on shipping than Rock.

Also ordered an engine air filter, since, judging by the tires and accessory belt, that likely hasn't been replaced. I briefly considered a K&N drop-in panel filter (legal under SCCA Street rules), and Monkey Wrench Racing claims it's worth 3-4hp, but I think that's a case of "Engine goes vroom now, must have more power." It was also five times more expensive. And, I got lucky and could get it out of the same Rock warehouse as the axle, so only had to pay shipping once.

NickD said:

In reply to gixxeropa :

Kind of my thought. It's technically illegal, but not in a way that matters or provides any advantage (kind of like removing the precats, but even more innocuous)

Yeah I'd be ticking the 5th gear box. Has zero advantage over your competitors and the rule is written more as a blanket statement.

Because I'm lazy, but also so this bit of information is included with all the other interesting bits of knowledge... How much do all the necessary parts cost to convert from SMT to manual?

In reply to clutchsmoke :

Not sure of the individual parts of you were to source them all from Toyota, but Monkey Wrench Racing does sell an SMT-5MT conversion for $2395, with a $500 refund if you send certain SMT components back to them. They say it doesn't require transmission removal but it's still an in-depth job that takes 15-18 hours. 

That being said, unlike automatic Miatas, the SMT cars don't seem to trade hands for much less than a 5MT car, certainly not $2400+labor less. And also, unlike automatic Miatas, there aren't a ton of SMT cars out there. It was introduced post-facelift, when sales dropped rather precipitously, and the SMT wasn't a largely selected option.

Here's the link to the kit. My thoughts are though, unless you can get one dirt cheap with failed SMT components, it's likely not worth it to buy an SMT car and convert it to a regular 5-speed.

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-mr2-s-smt-manual-conversion-kit-complete/

So, no real updates. Mostly just been driving it around. The transmission noise is still there, but doesn't seem to be getting any worse. That, and the top, have been prioritized for next spring, so I can get together all the clutch parts over the winter. 

I did finally get around to changing the air filter. It looks like a difficult job to do, but not really. Despite how it may look, you actually do not have to remove the X-brace.

There's a hose clamp on the front of the airbox for the ducting, you back that out with a Phillips screwdriver. Then there's this coolant hose that just pops into the right side and back of the airbox, that you pop loose. There's the MAF connector, and then two brass C-clips on the front that you pop off with a flat blade screwdriver. Those clips are captive on the lower part, so don't worry about loosing them.

Then you just side the airbox off to the left and lift the air filter out. As you can see, there are a lot of sunflower seeds at the bottom. There was also a dryer sheet tucked in there, which tells me that the whole thing about sticking a dryer sheet in a car to keep a mouse out is a load of E36 M3.

Yeah, that's disgusting. I'm sure a few full-grown ponies were escaping the stable from this.

This is compared to the new filter (Wix PN 46242). Muuuuch better.

Reinstalling it is pretty much the reverse. Just don't be a dope like me and forget to plug in the MAF again, because then you will go to start the car, it'll stall, and then it will set a Check Engine Light that you have to clear. Did it make a difference? I don't know, because I haven't driven it since I've installed it, but I feel much better now that it has a new one in there.

My friend Lawrence also sent me this photo, which gives me ideas for an eventual livery. 

I was supposed to install an Addco sway bar (the largest readily available one) and Twos R Us sway bar end links on my friend Lawrence's MR2 Spyder before the doubleheader autocross that I have this weekend, which I figured would be a nice practice install before I put one on my Spyder next year, but the Addco bar is apparently backordered and won't be shipping until sometime next week (he ordered it back in August), so that didn't happen.

When it comes to the front sway bar, there are some bigger or lighter ones (Saner Performance Fabrication and Paul Brown are the main two) but neither were readily commercially available when they were made, from what I understand. They were a case of you had to wait until they were doing a run and there'd be a group buy on a forum that you needed a special handshake to be a part of, or some such like that. 

So, this is going to be kind of a weird rambling roundabout post, but it looks like the Spyder will see one autocross this season.

We had a doubleheader autocross event this weekend at Oswego County Airport, which is our primary venue. I registered both days with the XSB Miata, since the Spyder still has a stock sway bar, stock struts, and "just" Conti ExtremeContactSport02s, and that transmission noise I'm concerned about.

Saturday, we started off with five runs in the morning, and near the end my fifth run, the Miata goes from "Damn loud" to "berkeleying loud". I finish the run out, get back to the pits, jack it up, and see this.

The collector flange snapped right off my Racing Beat header. This header was secondhand from someone here on the forum (I think it was moxnix) and had been cracked and welded further up before I got it, which was 5 years ago, when I did the blown 1.8L swap.

I was there and wanted to finish out the day, so I was offered to co-drive the afternoon in a Mini Cooper EV S on Falken RT-615Ks. I had taken this for a spin at the beginning of the season, on stock tires, and knew it was a ton of fun, so I hopped in and somehow managed to get 4th in Pro and 13th overall. Even with 200tw tires that aren't the newest and greatest, it was a riot to drive. It doesn't feel heavy or understeer prone and it accelerates like a rocket. The biggest issue with it is, remembering to flip all of the switches to get it to let you do dumb stuff, and even then it still kicks in if you get to crazy, and the short range. Fully charged it has 116 mile range, so he had to trailer it to and from the event because he lives 70 miles away, and in the afternoon, with the two of us driving, the range went from 75 miles to 35 miles. It was actually one of my better finishes of the year, thanks to G/Street PAX.

That left me wondering what to drive Sunday. I could bring the Spyder, although it's underprepared and I'm a tiny bit nervous about the transmission and didn't want to break 2 out of my 3 cars in one weekend. Another person offered me his diesel Golf hatchback, with the comforting words of "You can codrive the Golf with me, but I wouldn't even codrive this car." (Its horribly uncompetitive.) My friend Lawrence offered me his Spyder (stock shocks, stock sway bar, Falken RT-660s). My friend Mark M. offered me his Spyder (fully setup, I've won an event with it). And my friend Mark B. also offered me his E/Street NB1 Miata (big front bar, Rival S 1.5s). Instead, I decided to hop in my friend Karl's 1987 325is that is classed in STX. I'm not sure of the mechanical specs (I know it doesn't have coilovers or even adjustable shocks, it has front and rear sway bars, the engine has been built,and it has 15x7 TRM wheels with 6 year old RE71Rs.). It's not a competitive car but I've never driven an E30, and this one has been autocrossing for decades. The basic body has over ~230k miles on it, with cooked clearcoat and a bunch of non-structural rust. I remember it being at my first event, when I started autocrossing 8 years ago.

I said afterwards that you don't drive that car, you experience it. The engine is cranky and doesn't like to idle anymore (it gets trailered everywhere anyways) and it has super short gearing, so you need third gear pretty much regardless of course design. It's a handful to drive, because he even admits that the rear bar is too stiff, and I was out of breath halfway through every run as I tried to wrestle it around. I said that I looked like I was swatting bees in the car, because my hands were going everywhere. But it was really fun when you got it right, it just made you work for it. I ended up actually beating the owner (a terrific guy who has been racing for longer than I've been alive and we frequently collaborate on course design) but only managed 5th out of 6 in Pro and 11th overall. Still, it was more about the experience.

So, how does this involve the Spyder? Well, our last event is October 1st. That gives me two weeks to replace the header on the Miata or get it welded up. And it's not a job that I can do in my garage (my garage is useless other than a roof over the head), so I'd need to take it to work. And pulling the header is a job, you have to remove the supercharger and the entire blower drive setup. Plus, even before the car broke, it became apparent to me that the Nankangs on it have been heat-cycled one too many times. They're hard as a rock. I don't feel like spending $960 for a set of Nankangs right now, to run one event, and then park it for the year.

Why not just codrive a car at the next event, like this one? Well, I have some (non-car) friends coming out to the next event and they want to ride along on some runs, and I'd feel weird taking a bunch of people out in a car that isn't my own. So, I've decided to run the Spyder at that event, and take a chance. And if the transmission noise gets worse, then I'll be putting it in winter storage 2 or 3 weeks later anyways.

And on that note, I got home and immediately ordered the big Addco front sway bar (https://www.addco.net/product/toyota-mr2-spyder-2000-05-front/) and the Twos R Us front end links (https://twosrus.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=449, make sure to check the Beefy Bar option if paired with the Addco or Saner or Paul Brown bar, and I picked red bushings, because everyone knows red is faster)

Shortly after clicking the buy buttons, my bank's fraud detection triggered. Dammit, I'm trying to be financially irresponsible here, leave me alone.

Lawrence also has ordered the same bar and endlinks for the last event, and we might be doing both of them at the same time down to my work on a Saturday. I also plan to spruce up the alignment at some point. I'll need every advantage I can get, since I won't be running Super 200TWs