Another P1800 build - All NB Miata from radiator to rear axle

Many thanks to NOHOME's post "Volvo P1800ES...kinda" for his very thorough build thread.

After 74 trips around the sun I decided to do yet another build.

This forum seems appropriate for this type of build since it does NOT fit the "Traditional" requirements on the Jalopy Journal- Hamb.

My car restoring/ building spans 50+ years with most activity in the last 40 years.

I personally do 99% of all the work (for my cars only, to do it for others would steal the fun). The only tasks I can't do is the actual engine machine work since I don't have the equipment.

This project fell in my lap indirectly due to me by buying 2 cars from one of older friends that is aging out (even though I had 5 other antique/ vintage cars).

First I bought his 50 Chevy Styline Deluxe sport coupe from him Then his 1933 Chevrolet Master a few years later

He knew I had some interest in early Volvo's (influenced by my son. Next is my 63 PV544 I just gave to my son.During the restoration of a 1 owner 544 and trying to chose a color, I ran across a fenderless PV544 build. I thought at my age (70 at the time) I really would enjoy not having to bend over the fenders to work on it. After studying the image I realized it was a Photoshop Car only. Undeterred I found a ragged 1958 Volvo PV 444 on Facebook and this happened. With a 93 Chevy s10 2.8L v6/ 5 spd as the parts donor from the radiator fan to the rear axle and a mustang II front suspension the game was on.

That looks great!

Well my good friend that I bought the 50 and 33 chevy from told me about a buildable 1958 Volvo Duett 2dr wagon near him and also 3 P1800 parts cars. Being addicted to the 4 wheel types I couldn't resist looking. By the time I got around to visiting the cars, I had already ruled out the wagon. Good thing because when I got there the wagon was sold but there were 3 homely looking P1800's. I've never been one to walk away from a challenge.

I knew from my PV544 and 444 builds I did not want the original suspension (almost no caster) or the original drivetrain (low performance 1800cc by today's standards. From the 444 I knew I didn't want the aftermarket MII type suapension iwth 4 bar rear suspension with low travel coilovers.

This led me to a Pontiac Solstice GXP - 260 hp turbo 2.0 L (I have always held the GM Ecotec  4 cylinders in high regard). Dimensions were very comparable with the P1800. So I found a 1 owner and bought it (I got it at a bargain because even though it was a 1 owner, it had been left out doors for years and had some sun damage).
After much study of dimensions in AutoCad of the P1800 overlayed on the Solstice I realized everything did indeed fit well except the width would have required ~ 3" fender flares (if I was 30 yeas younger I would have loved the wide body look, but I now want something a little more subdued)

I then stumbled on NOHOME's P1800 Kinda build thread.  The Miata NA and NB are narrow enough but do require moving the front axle forward 6-7".

Being and old fart I opted for a a 2 owner 2002 Miata Automatic instead of a stick. It runs and drives great but after digging deeper I learned about the dreaded IMMOBILZER security system and Mazda no longer sells the IMMOBILZER module (it reads the computer chip key and sends a code to the PCM ) which leads to a dependency on used junk yard parts and when those run out you are left with a BRICK. I looked into aftermarket ECM/PCM's like Megasquirt but quickly learned that these were all only compatible with manual transmissions (the Automatic trans TCM could not talk to the aftermarket ECM's).
Well this led to a 1999 3 owner Miata 5 spd which apparently doesn't need the computer key and it''s associated paraphernalia and being a 5 spd it has terrific after market ECM support due to the high demand by Miata enthusiasts (younger than me).

From the A pillar back the 1964 was the better body so I proceeded to cut the entire undercarriage from front to rear in prepartion for the Miata splice.

I am going to follow this. 

Very cool! The P 1800 is a beautiful shape.

Awesome!

Welcome to our mildly perverted world. You'll fit right in here. Love the 544!

Welcome to the board. I think you will fit right in with this crowd.

Pete

Let the fun begin .......Ecotec.....OHY  and you're how old???? 

Where are you located?

Please tell me about that yellow car. 

In for a follow. 

Really looking forward to this.

Also, if you happen to have some downtime, I don't think I'd be the only one interested in reading more about that 544....

In reply to NOHOME :

Do you have manual or power brakes ? what dia M/C ?

I think I'm going to raise the floor at least 1 in to get the car to ride lower. Do you think this will create a problem with the interface of the Miata dash and HVAC system or was your dash location somewhat independent of the original HVAC mounting studs on the Miata firewall.

I made measurements relating to the top of the Miata firewall (the place you used for the splice)  and the top front of the Miata valve cover (the valve covers highest point ~21"from firewall) and from level there is a 2.5" drop to the front edge of  the valve cover.

I then measured the Volvo from the prospective firewall joining position (like yours)  to the (~21"from firewall) and get 2.625" to the inside bracing of the Volvo hood. This seems the Miata engine can be raised at least an 1" to maybe 1.5" without having to bulge the Volvo hood and therefore raise the floor up to lower the Volvo's finished ride heigth.

What say you ?

In reply to senginc :

I say lower it as far as you can.  The drop is mostly subjective around a few other considerations that you will run into that I cant fully recall. 

You are going to run into an interference at the A-post where I had to made a slice into a triangular brace on the Miata and then weld it back.  I don't know if I have a pic but when you run into it, I should recall what I did.

Are you going to attempt this with the Volvo front sheetmetal in place?

What are your plans for the fuel tank?

I moved mine because I wanted the flat surface of a wagon cargo area.

If you leave yours where Mazda put it, you will save a ton of work, but lose the backseat area ( whats left of it). Not that the backseat  area of a P1800 is much of a loss. 

Pete

Oh boy... Watching NOHOME's build from start to finish convinced me there are far better ways to get Miata suspension under an 1800 than to do a pan swap, but have at it... personally, I would follow the Binky method (different host and donor, but the concept is the same).

The one issue with raising the cabin floor is the seat base to roof distance. Whether that will be an issue for you will depend on how tall you are.  The 1800 was originally design for tall Swedes and is often recommended as a classic car for taller folks. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

If all you want is the Miata suspension, then I would agree. For that matter I would not bother. 

But if you want:

Modern Suspension, Modern Engine, Modern HVAC, Modern Ergonomics, Rust free and rust resistant chassis, Non-Medieval Electronics, Parts availability  going into the future and reliability...then yeah, its well  worth it.

Not sure where the Molvo came across as a difficult project. This one would be an order of magnitude easier because it will not involve a driveline swap or a fuel system relocation. Time-wise, it could be done in months rather than years. Budget wise, without the engine swap, senginc's project will be economical. It would take much longer and cost a lot more to do a restoration on either of his rusty P1800s.

Did you happen to notice that when all said and done Binky did not work other than as YouTube content generator? 2000 beautiful brackets traveling in close formation does not always make a car!

In reply to NOHOME :

It really depends on what one wants out of their car.  I don't want a Miata in Volvo clothes as I don't really see the point in that.  I am glad you built what you wanted to build and you're happy with the results. Your build also taught me that is not what I want out of an 1800. But I also have a lot of experience driving a stock example, so I know what I like and don't like about the car.  And I also know enough about the cars to create a plan to build what I want without removing the characteristics of the car I want to keep. 

If you consider Binky nothing more than a content generator, then your understanding of creating content for YouTube is misguided. Yes, the videos get a fair number of views, but they are released far too infrequently to generate any meaningful income.  They are in that self-defeating situation where the last 10% takes 90% of the time combined with a desire for perfection getting in the way getting the berking thing done. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

This is, in the "end" Binky did not add up to the sum of its perfect parts.

Believe it or not, I have a good budy who drives a totally original 1800ES. We have fun at shows. The stock version is more akin to the MGB but even less tossable as a sports car. I would never try to drive cones in one of these.

What baffles me is the number of these wagons that still survive. I can find 8 in my area and there is rarely a problem finding one for sale in the mid 20 to 30k range. 

These old Volvos have so much style and presence that the brand has lacked since the 1990s. What a neat build! 

In reply to NOHOME :

I think many of the ~8000 wagons survived for the same reason so many of the ~2700 Triumph TR8s are still around - to the point where it's almost easier to find a decent TR8 than a TR7 in comparable condition - when new they were expensive cars that often got pampered and didn't get used as daily drivers. 

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

Raising the floor was in reference to NOHOME's build.

The Miata floor pan is dropped farther below the sill than the P1800. If you match the sills the body sits higher due to the relationship of the stock Miata suspension and  Miata floor pan in comparison to the P1800.  You can raise the Miata floor 1 - 2" by cutting the vertical section of the sides of the pan and making some custom 18 ga angle to weld to the P1800 inner rockers.

The Miata engine sits about 2.5" from the top of the Miata firewall thus allowing the engine to come up without interference.

The primary complication that I see at this point is the Miata dash will be higher next to the windshield. My proposed cure will be to trim the front edge of the Miata dash (must be trimmed some to follow the P1800 windshield contour regardless) an extra 1.5" and make a stepdown with 2 pieces of 18 ga angle using my shrinker' stretcher to follow the P1800 windshield contour. This allows room for the Volvo old style rubber windshield gasket to be roped in with the windshield. And a really great place to store pencils, rubber bands etc .

I will loose the large defrost vents but may be able to have some small defrost vents (like old cars had, about 3-4" wide).

It is imperative to maintain the stock Miata dash height/ position relative to the transmission tunnel on which it bolts to to retain the OEM HVAC.

A little progess today on the 99 Miata donor.

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

As an owner of a 63 Volvo 544 which shares the same B18 engine and suspension du jour of the 60's of 1/2 deg caster i simply did not want more of the same except for the P1800 overdrive (a big plus but just not up to snuff with a 5 speed).

So what I get is another 1800 cc engine with almost double the horsepower (considering gross vs net hp ratings). The reliability of EFI and outstanding handling and really improve NVH characteristics. High quality HVAC. Parts available from most local parts stores.

What's not to like ?

I also have a highly modified PV 444 2.8l V6, 5 spd, MII front, 4 link live axle rear, tubular bolt on frame (not unibody). Rides like a truck to get 4" ground clearance with coilovers - the PLUS is it handles like a GO CART on rails.

In reply to NOHOME :

Stock tank location - not enough room to gat my dogs to ride even in the tiny and hard to get in original P1800 back seat.